Dr. Sun Hoo Foo

Dr. Sun Hoo Foo

transcription

interview

Dr. Sun Hoo Foo

Ingrid Dudek

2004-07-14

English

Dr. in Chinatown

Q: Today is July 14, 2004. I am Ingrid Dudek and this is the Chinatown Documentation Project. Can we start by giving your name?

Foo: Dr. Sun-Hoo Foo.

Q: And your profession.

Foo: I'm a doctor.

Q: What I wanted to do today is talk about your personal and professional background in relation to Chinatown and Chinatown community medical needs and especially surrounding the events of 9/11. Let's start a little bit with your background.

Foo: Okay. I was trained at NYU. That was in 1976, Bellevue Hospital. I was told at that time, “if you see a Chinese patient in emergency room you are pretty sure they are very sick. They won't come up there until they are very sick”. So pay attention to them. After that I practiced -- my office was at 34th Street. And it takes a while, like a year sometimes, for patients to come there to see me for consultations. So at the end saw I should have office down here so that they can come. Now, to a lot of Chinese, “uptown is like a foreign land. It takes them years before they can go up there. Mainly because of the language problem. They don't how to get transportations. They don't know how to get there, and they're scared to go to place so they are not in Bellevue unless they are very sick.” So there was a reason of saying that. I think it's also true right now on basic care. I work very closely with Chinatown community. I'm a Director of Neurology -- I'm Director of Neurology at Downtown Hospital. I'm also on the board there, working in the hospital. We also have foundations called CCPH -- Chinese Community Partnership for Health -- that we do a lot of health screening, patient education in Chinatown area, because we know there's a problem here. Now, of this thing that we did from the CCPH, I published many articles on strokes. Now, strangely – and I'll tell you this -- if you live around Chinatown area there's official statistics that can tell you that “young stroke rate is about 50% higher than any part of the United States. By young, we mean anyone less than sixty years old”. We also look at our patients in Downtown Hospital. We found “our patient is seven years younger to have strokes compared with the [Northern] Manhattan [population]”, you know, north part -- you know, there was a study looking at different ethnicities, you know, in northern Manhattan, to see how the strokes is. And they look about -- look at them: black, Hispanic, but no Chinese. So we compare us to them and it’s seven years younger. And of the person who have strokes, many of them have brain hemorrhage. And as you know, the incidence of cerebral hemorrhage, it's about eight percent in the nation. But it’s up to 24% at Downtown. With hemorrhage in the brain you have more [physical] deficit and give you more problem. And we found that, although we cannot tell [if it’s properly] genetic whether it is so, but we know many of our patients have hypertension and it's never been treated. We also compared the data we have from the Chinese Community Partnership for Health, the screening. We have more [patent] hypertension, [and] more hypertension not treated. If they are treated they are not following up well. [We] also have a lot diabetes and hyper cholesterolemia, so we know all these are respective. And I'm very happy I could work with NYU recently. They have a grant [form the NIH to] establish [the] Asian health center to look at the health disparity among minority I think and it's starting very well. They just planning to set up a [liver] center at Bellevue, and other things will probably follow. And I hope that we can do a lot more for the communities.

Q: Obviously you have a great deal invested in the Chinatown medical community. I just want to back up a little bit and talk about what was your experience working in midtown and seeing how Chinese people related to the health care system that brought you downtown? At what point did you move your practice to Chinatown?

Foo: Well, I worked at Downtown Hospital very early on. But the offices were just like in the last six years.

Q: And you've been down here regularly for over twenty years?

Foo: Right. Right.

Q: Well, how have you seen, chronologically maybe, medical resources changing in Chinatown in terms of what's available and how people approach the medical system?

Foo: Well, I think you have to tell about the approach in two ways. One is, those who don't have insurance, [new] immigrants or those who are American citizens and works here. Now, if you know that we have a [medical] society [called] CAMS -- Chinese American Medical Society -- that started in [the] 50s. It expand now, we have about 800 members, mostly locally, and of that membership we formed something called CAIPA, so Chinese American IPA [Independent Practice Association]. We partner with Oxford -- we have a health care network of about two hundred physicians, and Dr. Tak Kwan is the president of that [CAMS]. We are one of the most successful IPA, and it's the only one that really do something for the [Chinese] community. Now, one thing that's different from us and other IPA is, our doctors work very hard. They work Saturday and Sunday, they open late, and Doctor Tak Kwan our physician, our president, sometimes he finish [work after] twelve o'clock. At night. So by doing that we are more accessible to patients. Especially a lot who do two or three jobs, and they have no time to see doctors in the working hour. They can't afford to do that. So they come on weekend and see us. So I think we are in touch with them on that wave. And also because of the culture issues, we probably knows their problem better than other -- better than our counterparts. Chinatown Clinic Health Clinic, also called Charles Wang, is doing a lot for the communities. For those who can afford and don't have insurance they really provide very good care. But Downtown Hospital, as I mentioned earlier, we have also clinic devoted for these communities. We established actually a Chinatown Partnership for Health -- sorry, wrong name, Chinese Community Partnership for Health -- that do regular screening, you know, radio shows. Health talk in different [public] places and workplace so that we get a message that, personally, and Dr. Tao and Dr. Leung and I in the office have a bi-weekly column at the World Journal that we publish regularly, the health issues in that newspaper and it is, of course, written by the staff reporter [reporter Eva Pan]. And at the end of it [the article] we do have numbers, with a hotline for patients to call, so [if] there's a problem regarding any health issue they have, or insurance, they can call. And this is staffed by CCPH of Downtown Hospital. Sometimes I get calls from Vancouver or Florida to ask for help. So this is how we try to get to the community to help them.

Q: So all of these professional networks are partially directed at getting the community to engage with their own medical. Do they also pick up the slack for people who don't have insurance?

Foo: Well, just the Chinatown Health Clinic, the Charles Wang Community Center. But from a professional standpoint there is more exciting happening. CAMS -- Chinese American Medical Society -- is not only local but national. We also form [an] international [organization]. This is something called Federation of Chinese American Medical Society, [we] partner with a physician, Chinese physicians from Toronto, Vancouver, and trying to talk about issues related to the Chinese community. We have a conference, international conference, every two years. Between here and San Francisco. This is the twelfth conference that's going to be set up on October, this year, talk about all the issues that related to Chinese patients. So the one I was talking to you about, like the strokes, is presented in that place so that everyone knows. So you go to our web site, you actually can see the abstracts of that. So we try on our part to work on the communities, try to get people interested in the issues. Because we do have problems that are not related, or are much less important for other communities, but it's important and it would be a big issue [for the nation] if it's not treated. Chinatown -- The Chinese Community Partnership for Health actually did a study not too long ago looking at hepatitis B in the school. And we really are trigger a national response of having everyone to have hepatitis B vaccine, because there's such a high prevalence of hepatitis B in our communities. So it's almost become epidemic, that you have to do something about it.

Q: Where does that come from?

Foo: The hepatitis B? Well, it's from the kids, and we found that the immigrants have high incidence than those that are born here. And it's transmitted, you know, sexually, in close contact. So if you don't treat that, it will be big health issue at the end and you can develop hepatitis B and cirrhosis and hepatoma. So we actually started it, NYU Downtown actually started that project.

Q: You had mentioned earlier that one of the assets of all of these organizations is that they're specific to the Chinese community and understand the cultural issues that are involved. I'm wondering if you could speak more on what you see the cultural issues are that are related to the Chinese medical needs.

Foo: Well, as you know that there's a Chinese traditional treatment for diseases, talking about ying and yang, talking about hot and cold. If you don't know that, it's very hard to treat them. Most of the patients don't like to go to hospital because their language is a problem and the customs are different. For example, this we have been working for a long time is when they go to the hospital they want hot water. They want warm water. They don't want to have cold water, because cold is bad for you. And you ask the staff to give you hot water, they think you're crazy. “No, we drink cold water.” I mean, that small thing will give you trouble. You know? Or when you eat you're not used to the Western food, so at Downtown do have cook that specially do thing for them so that they feel more comfortable. I mean, someone who are sick in the hospital, all these small things get very bad. The other thing is about getting blankets. When you sleep. You don't want to have too much blanket on you. But traditionally they feel very cool, they want two or three blanket. And the staff make it -- they feel that, gee, you're crazy, you want three or four blankets, it's no good for you. But however, that's how they used to. So small thing like that can make a big difference. You take care of it.

Q: I'm wondering, too -- you had mentioned that there were a number of outreach programs, like on the radio and in the papers. Are those in Chinese or how do they work?

Foo: They're in Chinese. And although this is a very small community, I think we have at least five or six newspaper, Chinese newspaper here, if not more. And most of the immigrants, when they come here, they don't have time to learn the second language. It's very hard for adult to catch the second language, especially to work three jobs and take care of the family. So all these things I'm talking about [are] in Chinese, and [we’re] trying to get to them with their language and then give them information that they need.

Q: So -- what -- I want to keep talking about the big picture in terms of, like you've been describing a very pro-active situation in terms of community and the medical institutions taking an interest in specific community needs. Do you feel that has always been the case?

Foo: I think the momentum is here now. I mean, it's coming up. I don't think it's there before. The Asian Health Center just started. From NIH, from the grant from NIH. In the past, no one cared about it. Now,

I think the reason it accumulated to this point is, a lot of people are doing the work. And the communities, the doctors, we've been trying in the past and do that. And the hospitals did their part. You know, the Downtown Hospital, sixty-five percent -- sixty-five percent of patients are Asians. And they've been trying to work hard on trying to set the committee. The Chinese Health Clinic also started like -- what? -- I guess twenty years ago. I can't tell you the exact time. All this thing accumulate to the point that we all think that, we all know that this is going to be important. And so we were very happy then, you know. Today we have more people interested in trying to do something about.

Q: So you feel like it's the demographic change that people have to respond to, the realities of the populations downtown…

Foo: Yeah. I think people are more sensitive to -- to -- to minority issue, because they are not just isolated, they're important. And they not just affect the community itself, but if is not taken care of you affect the whole country as such. So in the past when you at journal, you look at study, we're talking about big population, we're talking about white, we're talking about -- you know -- Spanish, we're talking about blacks. But not so much about Asians. But the [Asian] population [is] increasing. We have about fourteen percent [annual] increase in Asian population here, in downtown area. And they get older, too. And they get sick, they get sick, too. So I think, you know, we need to look at the issues.

Q: So prior -- so prior to, say, this moment, has the burden is mostly the burden has mostly been on informal organizations to do the outreach?

Foo: You see, there's no, really, there's no organized effort to do it. I think Asian Health Center is the first one to try to use, to organize everyone together to work on these issues. And I'm very happy -- for example, I just mentioned that the liver center is established. Right away. And so when people looking at hepatitis B, cirrhosis, hepatoma issues on it. But before we reached that stage a lot of community people are working on it, to take care of the people, and voice that, you know. Not too long ago, I think, we have this Town Hall meeting -- this is initiated by the White House -- going to different places and talk about what the [health] issue is. Downtown Hospital, Chinese American Medical Society, and our counterpart in California -- there's a Chinese hospital there -- who will study on the program, taking your elderly and pick up all the information. We all went to the Town Hall and speak about it. I don't know if that triggered it but that, I think, helps. Because everyone is interesting and could join efforts and do something about it.

Q: What about post 9/11 issues? Because I know there have been, sort of, complaints or concerns that they were toxins in the air downtown, and that there was a specific medical commissions that were directed towards the downtown community. Did that -- did that outreach make it to Chinatown community? What is your sense of post-9/11 issues?

Foo: 9/11 was a very traumatic experience. I know that first hand, because our hospital is at Ground Zero. Although no one talk about it. Because we're right there, and no reporter can say there's no electricity, there's no telephone, and we functioned, just because of the good will of the workers there they do their best. We actually used cellular phones. And we have an emergency generator. Even at that difficult time we were able to go out for the communities and give them water, take care of the medical needs of the senior center that involved with the hospital. Also, because of [the blocking of] traffic, it's even hard for our patients to reach us, and we have a van go out to the community and get them organized. So there was immediate help, but after that I think the economy suffered a lot in this area. So this will affect patients able to get health care. Because they lost their job, they don't have things to do. Now, as far as the issue they're talking about, the pulmonary system, I think NYU have a team that comes down, and I think they registered people who are here that were exposed to that to see what will happen long term-wise. I'm a neurologist, I'm not a pulmonologist, I couldn't talk too much about that. But I think they are -- people are looking at it. I'm not sure it's enough target on that. But it really takes a lot of effort, a lot of coordination budget-wise to do it. So I don't know how far we are in that. But, yes, this may come out in the next few years, whether we all will have more pulmonary consequences on the exposure. But

I think that the main thing is the economy-wise, because we do lost a lot of patients. Because of their loss of their jobs they lost their insurance. They wouldn't be able to see patients. So that could be a problem.

Q: Have there been any efforts to ameliorate that issue in terms of economic loss and its relationship to health care?

Foo: Well, I think all of us working on this are trying to get helped. For example, I work at Downtown, I work very closely with them. Because of this problem, patients couldn't get to us, there's less patients coming in, and we could not help them. So we were trying to get help from the federal and from, you know, philanthropy to help the hospital in this financially stressed time. So that we can be strong and we can serve the communities. We are asking for help. We are -- we are looking at -- a lot of people are offering help so we need more.

Q: I know you work in neurology, but I was wondering if you could speak to your general sense of how Chinatown was affected by 9/11, generally or perhaps in terms of medical needs.

Foo: Well, we have Charles Wang that, in theory, will help anyone that needs help, whether you have money or not, or insurance or not, they will be able to help you. The question is whether, because of the economy down-turn, that [the resident will] have time to look into [their health issues], and you know that. I mentioned earlier before, because “when you see them in the emergency room they are very sick, otherwise they won't come in”. So you have to -- if they have to support to put food on the table -- they don't have time to go to see doctors, you can go to Chinatown Health Clinic or you can go to the Downtown Hospital, the clinic that we have is supposed to help them if they come and ask for it. We do encourage them to come. The question is whether they can come or not, you know, because of the -- they have to work on the other side. So I think we need a lot of help there. We have to revise economy in Chinatown.

Q: A lot of the reports that have come out have fixated on whether asbestos affects the issue and whether or not [INAUDIBLE], but it's like the picture you're painting is more that the institutional structures are there but the problem really is outreach and access.

Foo: Right. I think they could come in, we will help them more. Not to say that there's no increased asthma or other problems. I think, yes, they were affected. The other thing I want to stress is that the institutions are trying to research on this [cell phone rings] and see if all this effect can be studied and we can find a better way of treating, if it affects us.

Q: So what would you anticipate then is, say, a medical issue that is so far unaddressed, that you would like to see in the future.

Foo: You’re not talking in particular about 9/11, all right? Okay. See, we have our own things. Let’s say, nasopharyngeal [NPC] cancer. If you see that, it has to be Chinese or Asian, not other races. There's a lot of things to deal with it. Stroke issues, why we have so much [cerebral] bleed. Is that just because they are more hypertension that are not treated, or genetically there's a problem in it? The health issues, I mean, all this risk factor can be modified if it change. And there's a public health issue that can we get the message to the people and help them with that? Hepatoma, hepatitis B, I mentioned earlier on, “if you see a big liver, it is Asian, it is usually a tumor”. If other races, it could be due to, you know, big liver, fatty liver. But not Chinese. If you see that. When I went to medical school I was told -- I was trained in Taiwan – “when you see a big liver in Chinese patient it has to be hepatoma, nothing else”. So that's something that we know. Infectious diseases like TB, the immigrant may have the [infected area] focus in the lung, or they may be infected and if not treated adequately it could become a problem when they get older. So all these are issues that we have to work on and find out. Now, [beeper sound] traditionally people think that Chinese are a model minorities that don't have any problem. And we always thought that we are quite good, our cholesterol is very low, but you don't get the statistic our cholesterol actually is quite high. Now maybe because the Western food that we are eating over here, but that's an issue. It's not, you are thin so you don't have cholesterol problem. We also have a lot of osteoporosis. Fractured hips and things like that. And that's because of either genetic issues or because of the environment, you know, the food we're taking, or we're not exercising enough. So there are a lot of issues there that we have. Now, one of the things that Dr. George Liu [CAIPA president] is interested in is, we don't have even the normal data on us. Osteoporosis is just for Western data, not the Asian data. We should be able to look into that. And do it. So this Asian Health Center we established is trying to encourage people to do research and get grants and study all these issues. I think, in the next few years, I think we should be able to help us by working concentrated on this [Asian health], and having people interested in this.

Q: So these are all issues that you feel can be identified uniquely to Chinese people or Chinese communities. I'm wondering maybe more specifically what kind of patients do you see, in terms of background, in terms of what age people are.

Foo: Me, myself?

Q: Yes.

Foo: Well, I see a lot of patients -- I'm an adult neurologist -- so I see adults. But [due to] the nature of neurologist, we see a lot of older people with strokes, coming with strokes, with Parkinson's Disease. The geriatric population will eventually, you know, be what I serve. I also see a lot of young people, a lot of migraine patients, a lot of patients with back pains, [beeper sound] problems like that.

Q: So from that vantage point, I wonder if you could speak about how you see your patient population having changed during your career at Downtown. In terms of immigrant populations or economic backgrounds…

Foo: Well, I think, with the insurance changes recently, with this HMO coming up, it makes a big difference as far as what I see and where I see. And, you know, and I used to see a lot of stroke patients in the hospital, and it still does, but, however, we have less patients in the hospital because we are getting them out early from the hospital, so hospital practice become less -- we have more outpatient practice. Of course, it depends on where you [work]. I see my patients come in two groups. One is young, working class, and with a stress or migraine headache and with activities, you know, back pains. So that would be that population. But for the older geriatric population, I see a lot of stroke patients, patients with Parkinson's Disease, and chronic disease.

Q: And these people most often are coming to you through HMO's or other kinds of -- ?

Foo: Yeah, because HMO or just Medicaid, just geriatric populations.

Q: I want to go back a little bit to the 9/11 issue and see if you could talk a little bit more about what went on at the hospital, and what kind of things went on immediately aftermath of 9/11.

Foo: Well, if you are there the day of 9/11 it's amazing how the workers devote themselves to do it. I was at NYU when this thing happened. I was in a meeting. Came out and saw some smoke coming out from World Trade Center. Immediately I thought that I should come down. So I went to the garage to get my car, I turn around NYU three times, I couldn't get down because everything is blocked. I mean, [the police are] very fast at blocking. And I don't know what to do. And I think a lot of people don't know what to do in that. But I was -- I went there and talked to my daughter at Columbia [University] and she told me, 'Why don't you call the police?' So I just figure I just go and talk to a policeman. I said, 'Look, I have to go down to Downtown, because I work there.' So, no problem, immediately they get me down right away. But by the time I get down it's way too late. Because the two buildings was already collapsed. Within minutes, I think, there are more than four hundred people go to the emergency room covered with dust, and it's taken care of by the hospital, for their purposes. When I was there that wait is gone, and everyone is waiting outside for ambulance to come. And we see ambulance come in, come out, but really there are no patients coming in. We see mostly injured workers, you know, firemen and policemen coming in. It was very sad. But I cannot tell you, though, everyone is trying to do their best to help, and no one is talking about anything except to help the patients. The hospital covered by dust, no electricity, no telephone service, but everyone's there waiting to serve. It was very touching to look at it.

Q: And then?

Foo: After that, I think after that, we really worked very hard, we really have a hard time, because without telephone, without electricity, it's very hard to work there. But everyone have a spirit high up, and help each one, help everyone, [we went out] to the neighborhood [to offer help]. I think Dr. Logan at that time was asking doctors and nurses to go to the surrounding senior citizens’ [homes]. Because there's no access to them. We [brought] them water and try to take care of their health needs. So I thought that was very nice. We try our best to do it with the limited [resources] that we have. And after that, it still take a while before we get electricity back in.

Q: How long did that go on?

Foo: I really don't remember. It was a while ago. I know but it takes a long time to do it. No one talk about, you know, when they get paid, or whether they sick, or it's overtime, things like that -- they would just do it. So that was very good. And you look at a lot of nice people. You are very happy about that. After that, we do suffer, because there are a lot of roadblocks. Patients could not come into the hospital because they had to walk through all these blockades -- they are even there now. So patients don't come to the hospital, so we have a problem because they couldn't come access us. But I think it works out now.

Q: How long was it before things normalized somewhat?

Foo: In the hospital?

Q: Yeah.

Foo: Oh, dear --

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Foo: Oh, dear, it takes a while, and I don't think it's still normalized right now. Because it does affect our -- the -- the -- the referral from the surrounding places even now. I mean, you know that the Chatham Square is still blocking there, right, so it's very hard to get from there to the hospital from that routes. And you cannot go to the FBI where the [INAUDIBLE] school and the building is to get to there. So we have a van service that is free for patients to come from Chinatown. We take them over to the hospital. But it's still not convenient. But anyway, we try to cope. We try to cope. We do our best.

Q: What was the general feeling in Chinatown at that time?

Foo: About the 9/11?

Q: Post 9/11.

Foo: Oh, it was terrible. You know, you are here, at that time, I remember -- I never see anything closed down -- closed -- in Mott Street. And I think not too long after the 9/11, I saw two or three restaurants that are closed in Mott Street. Which never happened before. And all the garment factories -- I'm told that there may be more than a hundred factories close down around this area, because there's no way you can get the product out of the place. There's no traffic. You can not get out. And being they're in trouble already, this just kill it. I'm told that now, if you want to have office in Chinatown it's very easy, because there's a lot of space opening up in the garment factories. So it's easier to get, and therefore real estate sending the rents coming down, and all that. But I think, if you know about Chinatown, the places that are closed down in Chatham Square -- it's [where] all the buses stop there for tourists to come and buses stop there. The tourists will go from that place, Mott Street, and go around and visit Chinatown. Being no bus over there, there's no traffic. So it's very quiet. I think it's better but, at that time, I think, during 9/11 even though you come to support the restaurants you can go in and you be the only one there in the restaurant. So it affects the economy very badly. What else I can say about it?

Q: At what point were different medical institutions responding to medical needs especially in Chinatown? You talked about Charles Wang but then there are also federal and state initiatives in Chinatown. Did those hit Chinatown?

Foo: Right. I guess it's all done locally. All locally, by local community. The Charles Wang, Downtown Hospital, physicians, they would just volunteer to take care particular patients. And actually, when the plane hit here a lot of Chinese physicians at Downtown. And suddenly this community volunteer and close their shops, close the office, and go to the hospital to volunteer their time. It's very sad that we had more doctors than patients given the events, but, really, there were a lot of people going to help. Now, some of the time -- I think, at that point, when it happened, most of the office are closed. Not because the doctor don't want to come, but he just no have access. You can't come here. And patients have no access to come to see you. I was in the hospital for some time, so hospital is open all the time. Anyone who wants care can come in. So I think it's a local effort to do that. Of course, it's not like the SARS or whatever, that we had to mobilize the whole nation to it. There's no need for that. It's probably all local effort. And everybody thinks it's probably busy, about what would happen during that time. And I don't think there is any special need. My son was a medical student at that time. They went to -- what is that, on the west -- the government actually set up a whole operating place in the Chelsea place, where you have many operating tables there. But, again, there's nothing [happening] there. Everything is set up. I think the government come and respond very fast on the disaster. But there's really no patients that require their help.

Q: Not in that way.

Foo: Not in that way, right.

Q: So you're sense is that the effects may be long term or --

Foo: Right. What will happen in the future. But I think whatever emergency at that point, it happen within seconds. Nothing help after that.

Q: You mentioned the SARS scare. What was your experience with that like? How was it different?

Foo: Well, it was very bad. I think it was [sounds like] worse. Now, at that time, although we know that there's no SARS in Chinatown yet, people look at us and say, 'Well, you're Chinese, you must have SARS.' So no one come to Chinatown to restaurant to eat at that point. If anyone is here you see all Chinese there, because we say we'll support the community, we'll come in here. And there's nothing -- so people worry about catching SARS, and this may be the place that you will have it. But fortunately we don't have SARS, but unfortunately it [did] affect the economy very badly.

Q: How long will that go on?

Foo: I can't tell you the time, but it [did] go on for a long time. Yeah. I think now the economy's catching up, but I think there are more things to do. And I don't know what else. I mean, I'm doctor, I don't know economy, but I think there are a lot of things you can do to stimulate economy.

Q: I wanted to switch gears a little bit -- because you mentioned your son was in medical school, and I wanted to get a better sense of your personal history. Because you were trained in Taiwan at the National Taiwan University --

Foo: Right. Yeah.

Q: Did you grow up in Taiwan?

Foo: No.

Q: Where --

Foo: Well, I was born in Malaysia. I was growing up in Brunei, and medical school in Taiwan. Well, I think it's -- my family's spreading all over the place. Some are in Australia, and one was in Canada. That happened when my father moved down to Malaysia [from China]. And the reason for that is because of the war. So we were sent up there.

Q: At what point did you come to the States?

Foo: Well, what happened is, is I think it's very tough to grow up in Malaysia and Brunei, because you're so afraid that you don't have the identity. Although I work very well and very friendly -- I have a lot of friends in different places. So when I was in Taiwan, actually, I have a group of friends that are very interested in trying to make medicine into Chinese. So I was at National Taiwan University. When I graduate, our CR, which is Chief Resident, that translated Harrison textbook in internal medicine to Chinese. So hopefully we can use [Chinese] as a medium and probably get to our patients much easier. So the first thing I did. And then, spinning from that, we got a publication called Medicine Today that's targeted for practicing physicians using Chinese as a medium, to familiar them with their Chinese medical terms. And also, we spin out a magazine for public, called Health [World], which is still ongoing right now. So I was very proud that we could do that. And then, at that point, America's the place where you further your medical knowledge, so my father suggested, 'Why don't you go to America and learn more about it?' So I came over here. And fortunately I went to St. Vincent's at Bridgeport, and after that I went to NYU for my neurology training. And after I finished, with my experience in Bellevue, knowing that Asians don't go to hospital unless they are very sick, I thought, well, maybe I should come down to Chinatown. Be, you know, close to them. So they start all these things.

Q: In your work in translating the medical textbooks, was it because the education system was not so standardized?

Foo: Well, at that point, because Americans is top as far as medicine is concerned, so all the advanced knowledge, newer knowledge is from [the U.S.]. And Chinese, well, don't really have access to that. So if we can translate to Chinese we can bring this to more physicians, and to more patients, it would be a good thing to do so they can do it. One of the things very interesting at that point is [psycholody], there was a psychiatrist, Dr. Tseng, [who] was trained in Hawaii, came back and started a whole thing on us -- influenced really a lot. He translated a lot of psychiatry literature, including dream interpretations from Freud -- which I was part of together with my friends. So we tried to bring that knowledge to China. Now, talking about something, we do have problems, you know, of mental health in this area [Chinatown]. I don't know if you know that the suicide rates, you know, in elderly female are very high. Because of the culture changes most of the immigrants come here, work for the family, raise the family, and the children, although are very excellent, they don't necessarily have the same culture or the same thinking as [their parents]. And therefore, when they get old, when they retire, some get lost and don't know where to go. And it's very easy to see all the Chinese patients, geriatrics, you know, and found that they have depressions. They're all very depressed because [they think] it's time for them to die. There's nothing else to do. So Dr. Chung, Henry Chung, a psychiatrist, is trying to get a grant, work on the mental health issue on the area. And I think that's very great still. Also, part of the Asian Health Center that just started, that's the main issue I think we look at. So talking about twenty-something years ago, we think there's something to work on, and we need it now.

Q: You actually brought this up earlier, kind if in a different way, in terms of making Western medicine more amenable to Chinese cultural needs. Do you feel that psychology is difficult to address as sort of a really Western practice?

Foo: Well, I think you have to look at the cultures. Chinese and Western are very, very different.

I don't even know about the -- one of the main classics in China called 'Dream of the Red Chamber'. If you look at that and the spirit tells you how the Chinese structure is, family structure is, none of us [as individuals] are very important -- the family is important. And you are important because you are important in the family. So Jia Boyi, the young man hero in it, is just an ordinary person, but because he will inherit -- you be the spokesperson for the family, so everyone try to be friend with him and make him very important. If you lost that [status], you are not there any more. So in Chinese culture all of us are part of the whole family, and not individual. It's very different from the person who [is raised in the West]. The [second generation] Chinese, the immigrants over here, adopt the cultures here. It's very different, and I think even in China, because of the world is getting smaller, everything change. So you need -- you do need to look at that. It's very hard for a Chinese to see a psychiatrist, because it's such a shame -- you know, you're “crazy”, that's why you go to see someone. But -- but, it's not true. I mean, there are things that you can not talk, and value system has changed, so I think we have to work on that and help our people.

Q: So maybe this is another need.

Foo: Oh, yeah. This is the biggest need, I think. The health, the mental health issue, is a big need that everyone ignore. Now, it's rare to see a Western psychiatrist, also, because the culture's different. And the way you express is very different. And maybe you have something to say, you cannot express in English, and he just not going to help you.

Q: Is there a large Chinese psychology movement or mental group, even?

Foo: Well, I think we are starting. Of course there are -- being, you know, there are a lot of Asians now in the United States. There are more Asians study medicine and some of them will be a psychologist.

Q: To back up again…

Foo: Yeah.

Q: You have said after Taiwan you came to the U.S. and that's when you got interested in the Chinese community here. Do you live in Chinatown?

Foo: I don't live in Chinatown. I live in New Jersey. I thought -- at that time, when I first started,

I was a resident. And I look at the Water tower -- there's a building there. And finally I don't have money to live there. I think I am the same as [any other] immigrant when I came here with nothing in my hands. So if I pay all my salary in renting apartment my kids wouldn't be happy, and they would be disappointed. So I decided to go to Elmhurst, and stayed, and my friends helped me to do it. And when they get older I thought that, gee, they may want to be more in the culture, in the society, so the only way I can do is go to the suburb, where they'll be happy, with many -- with a lot of rooms to grow up. So I went to New Jersey, North Jersey, and raised them there.

Q: But even so, professionally and personally, you remain engaged in the Chinese and Chinatown community obviously.

Foo: Right. Right.

Q: Is there a community in Jersey?

Foo: No.

Q: … where you live?

Foo: Well, I live in a very small community, but my main activities in Chinatown and Elmhurst. When my kids are small I took them to Chinese school. And if you are Chinese family, you know how hard that is. I took them, you have free time on Saturday and Sunday, I took them to school. They hate you forever. I have four children. I managed to do it with [the first] two, and the other two I gave up. I gave up. Because it's really a torture. They speak English, they don't speak Chinese in school, their friends speak English. You ask them to learn a language that's very tough and hard. They wouldn't do it. But fortunate thing, the world's getting smaller. When they go to college they realize that -- there's a language they have to learn. They have to learn. So they major in Chinese in college. And that -- and that -- because of that, I set up a web site thinking that I know something and I may be able to help them to learn Chinese and also know [some things about] Chinese cultures. And not only for them. Because I'm not sure how you affect them. So I put on a web site so that anyone, or my colleagues, can see it, and anyone who would like to know something about Chinese will be able to learn it.

Q: Have your kids taken up Chinese?

Foo: Oh, yeah. They major in Chinese in college. In college. I was surprised, because, you see, I learned Chinese the traditional way -- you speak, go to school, you read it, and we know, we used to it, to learn it. So we don't use “pinyin” using the alphabet to learn it. But what I found one day, my kids can say Chinese can say Chinese, can read Chinese, and find all the words. And I thought that they could not do it. So I found out -- I went to Internet using “pinyin”, typing “pinyin”, and they can found the Chinese words. And they can write it down. So it triggered me and motivated me to learn that. So by using that tool [“pinyin”], I said, oh, maybe I can tell them what I want to tell them, which I was not successful when they were younger. So [I] try to do that. One of the things I'm very interested in doing is [to teach them] to learn Chinese from painting. And when you look at a lot of Chinese painting, you love them, it looks good, but the -- you know, the words, the calligraphy of some really doesn't make sense to you. You don't know what it is. It looks good, but you don't know what it is. It's very important if you know what they're saying. Because that is part of the painting. One example I tell them, you can see my site, is lotus. Now, you may be surprised why there are so many lotus in Chinese painting. There is something like that. But there -- there's essay -- there was a essay reading on Lotus, and give you a lot of meanings to it. There's a lot of symbolic things that we do that. Well, on the site, I cite the calligraphy, I cite where it come from, I put down the whole essay. But there are a few things that are very important, I think, that they want to learn. Just a few words. It not only help them to build their vocabularies, [but] know the Chinese culture at the same time. So, why Lotus? Lotus is grown from a very dirty, muddy pond. But the flowers are very beautiful. The fragrance is very delight[ful]. It symbolizes the gentleman. You don't have to come from wealthy family. Not to say that's bad. But you can come from any ordinary circumstance. Even from the mud. But you can be a gentleman, and be very good, if you take care of yourself and learn about it. So that's what it is.

Q: I'm sorry. Just to back up to Chinatown. As an immigrant coming over, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you've seen Chinatown change.

Foo: You see, there are two type of immigrants, the Chinese -- I'm in the fortunate one. Because I'm professional. At that time, during the Korean war, there's a need for physicians. So everything is helping me to establish my -- oh, I'm sorry, Vietnam war -- everything is there to help a doctor establish a practice and help me to raise my family over here. So I don't have to go to a restaurant and be a waiter, or try to get things. I've got my job immediately when I come here. All I need to do is polish up my English, get medical training. But financially, I'm okay. It's different from those who have to change their professions, who have no means of doing what they do well in their countries, to start from nothing. Without language, without place, crammed in Chinatown. The only thing you can do is either go to garment factories, or go to a restaurant and work as a waiter. There's no other jobs for you to do. So it's very miserable for a professor to come here and do that. And in fact one of my teacher came here, stay for two weeks and then went home. Because he could not stand it. I mean, it's very degrading, a principal of a school coming here to be a waiter. So very different things. I'm very fortunate I can be on this side. But for immigrants, a big struggle. Not only that you've changed but you don't have enough money, you have to raise the children, you have to wait from the tables. A lot of times they actually have to work two or three jobs to do that. So they're not taking care of themselves, health-wise or education-wise. So it's very, very sad. But I think you can say that for any immigrants. Not just Chinese, but --

Q: Would you say that's still the case for Chinatown?

Foo: Yeah. I mean, those who come over here, unless they're professional, they go to college, study, and do that, yes, they have to struggle for the same thing. That's why garment factories, restaurants is very important for them. With the economy downturn, I think, it's very bad for these immigrants to come here. Now, you go to Chinatown, you go to where they live, you'll be amazed at some -- how small the space is, how they crowd in a place. And how they have to work to make ends meet.

Q: Chinatown has such a long history of different waves of immigration, and it seems like there's always kind of a struggle to maintain a community identity, because once an immigrant, say, by second generation, has a bit of success, they're likely to move. Do you have any sense of how that's changed over the years? Do people come back more often now invest as in a way you have in services to the community and to Chinatown?

Foo: Well, I guess people who grew up from China had to go out, right? You can't just keep everyone over here. So, especially, you're doing something they are not, limited to local activities. So a lot of people could help. But I wish a lot more Chinese that are successful out there would come back and help [the community]. For example, we have tried to raise money for the hospital, because we have sixty-five percent of population are Chinese. It's hard to have successful Chinese come up from the Chinatown or come here to give us money so they can do more works for the communities. They're happy to give money to Columbia, to Harvard, because there's a prestige in doing it. To help a local community hospital may not be in their mind. But I wish they'd change their mind and help us more, so they can help more people here.

Q: Can the hospital appeal to the state or the government, or is it all philanthropy?

Foo: Oh yeah, yeah, of course, you know it must be the federal to help us. And if you know, in the last few years we even have Hong Kong -- Hong Kong stars to come and help us to raise money for this Chinese Community Partnership for Health. We have a concert every two years, and we have a lot of community help to help us to do that. So we do have people that want to help us, but we need more.

Q: Do you feel like medical institutions like your hospital are, in that sense, insufficiently recognized as important to the community?

Foo: No, I think people recognize it's important. The question is whether people will say, 'Okay, I will help you' more -- because you can't have people give you money to spend to use it with a -- with coming up with of the 9/11, and what happened to hospital is -- is we have less fund coming in for us. Now, give you example, right? Let's say, if their operating budget is a hundred million dollars. If your HMO cut down your reimbursement ten percent, well you lost ten million dollars. Everything else is the same. What if your [number of] patients drop, okay, [then] expenses goes up. We're only talking about small money. So we really have to do a lot to try to make the budget meet. But, you know, we do need people to help with that. We need people to help out with -- with the equipments, with things so that we can better service the community. I'm not saying that we don't have, but we need more.

Q: So the economic downturn affects everybody.

Foo: Yes.

Q: Then what would you -- what would you like to see for the future of Chinatown? How do you see the future in Chinatown?

Foo: Well, Chinese people are very industrious. They work very hard. They complain not that much.

I think, you know, I want the Chinatown to prosper. What I can see there is that unless the economy change, it's maybe hard, now. We rely on garment factories, restaurants, tourists to this place. We have [a lot of] problem after 9/11. So it would be hard for us to do things. With new immigrants coming in they probably will concentrate in this area because the language issues, so we need more people working on that, giving them resources. Now, things that I mentioned earlier about the Asian Health Center establish, and we can do a lot more things for the community. This will help them help us to identify the problem, and help their health needs. The other thing I'd like to do is let more people interested in Chinese culture. I think it's very important. If you talk to people and people interested in your culture know what you are, it's a way of communicating. And that's why I put some of my efforts in “learning Chinese”. Not to say Chinese is superior than any other language, but it's a kind of culture for the last 5,000 years. There's something that's there that we can help other people to understand. So language is a problem. But you make it easy, which the computer that we have, and the new software that we have, other people will understand us more, and it will be great for America because we have a multi-culture society and it all works together, we know each other well, we can probably make this country a better place.

Q: Thank you.

Foo: Okay.

Q: Is there anything you would like to say before we finish?

Foo: I’d like to work with the museum [Laughter] I was thinking about the -- giving more for the museum standpoint -- is giving more about the Chinese culture. It's one of the things I think, that I come across, is about the last name, surname thing. My father is very interesting, gave me about twenty volumes of the Foo genealogy that's published in different times. From that I can trace by my ancestor -- direct ancestor -- up to the first one. And even more than that. So I think that's very important, is how we trace our ancestors. How in the world you can know that. There are generation poem that we have. So, you know, most of the Chinese have three names, right? We don't have last name, we have surname. The surname is the first one. And the last one actually is your own name. In the middle is a generation name. You get your generation name from a generation poem. So if we both had the same surname, if I tell you what my middle name is you know my rank in the family. We sort of lost that nowadays, but I think it's something that might be interesting people to understand, our Chinese culture, how it comes. So I want to talk to the museum about that.

Q: So there's a cultural history there that is -- as you were saying, it's so much more than just Chinatown as

a tourist spot.

Foo: Right. Right. Right. It's important for people to understand how Chinese functions, how Chinese structure is, yes. So there's what’s in reading of name. Actually there’s a lot of classics, too, look at my site. I'm working on that.

Q: All right. Thank you so much.

Foo: Okay. Nice to talk to you. Anything I can do, let me know.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

<p> 問：今天是2004年7月14日。我是Ingrid Dudek，唐人街文件專案（Chinatown Documentation Project）。你能不能先講一下你的姓名？</p>
<p>FOO：Sun-Hoo Foo博士。</p>
<p>問：還有你的職業。</p>
<p>FOO：我是醫生。</p>
<p>問：我今天採訪的內容是關於你個人以及你的職業背景，主要是圍繞唐人街和唐人街社區的醫療需要，尤其是關於9/11事件。我們先談一下你的背景。</p>
<p>FOO：好的。我是在紐約大學讀的醫學院。那是在1976年，Bellevue醫院。那個時候別人跟我講，“如果你在急診室裏看到中國病人，他們應該是已經病得很重了。如果他們的病不重，他們不會來看醫生的。”因此，要多注意一下他們。在那之後，我在---我的辦公室在34街。過了很長一段時間，差不多是一年之後，才有病人到那裏看病。因此，我後來在這裏租了間辦公室，方便他們就醫。現在，對於很多中國人來講，“上城就像是國外一樣。很長時間之後他們才會去那裏。主要是語言上的障礙。他們不知道怎麽去。他們不知道怎麽去，他們怕去陌生的地方。因此除非他們病得很重，否則他們是不會去Bellevue的。”看來，這種說法是有一定根據的。我想在基礎醫療方面現狀也依然如此。我的工作與唐人街社區的關係十分密切。我是神經科主任---我是市醫院神經科的主任。我也是院裏董事會的成員。我們還有一個基金會，叫做CCPH---華人社區醫療健康合作基金會（Chinese Community Partnership for Health）---我們在唐人街地區做很多醫療檢查和健康教育，因爲我們知道這裏存在這些問題。在CCPH從事的衆多工作裏面包括<br>

我出版的若干關於中風的文章。現在，很有意思的是---我會告訴你我爲什麽這麽講---如果你居住在唐人街地區附近，有官方統計“低年齡人的中風發病率大約是50％，是美國發病率最高的地區。我講的‘低年齡人’是指六十歲以下的人。”我們也統計過市醫院的病人。我們發現“我們中風病人的年齡普遍比曼哈頓[北部]人口低七歲”，北部---有人對曼哈頓北部不同種族中風患者做過調查。他們調查了---黑人，西班牙人，但不包括中國人。我們拿自己的情況跟他們的檢查結果做比較，發現我們患者的年齡要比他們小七歲。在患中風的病人當中，他們多數患有腦溢血。你要知道，國內腦溢血的發病率大約是百分之八，但在下城是24%。患腦溢血會給你肢體帶來諸多不便和問題。我們發現，儘管我們還不能確定這是否有遺傳因素，但我們知道大多數病人都還有高血壓，並且從未接受過治療。我們也同我們在華人社區醫療健康合作基金會統計的資料做過比較。我們有更多高血壓的病歷和未接受過治療的高血壓的病歷。或者是接受過治療，但沒有堅持跟進。我們還有很多糖尿病和高膽醇血病歷，因此我們知道所有這些方面的資料。同時，我很高興最近能與紐約大學合作。他們從NIH得到一筆經費，針對少數裔族存在的特殊健康問題而準備籌建一個亞裔健康中心，現在搞得還不錯。他們正計劃在Bellevue設立一個肝臟中心，今後將會設其他方面的中心。我希望我們能爲社區做更多的事情。</p>
<p>問：顯然，你在唐人街醫療社區投入了很多。我想先打斷一下，請再稍微談一下你在中城工作的情況，是怎樣看到華人對醫療健康問題的看法而使你決定要搬到下城來的？你是什麽時候開始在下城執業的？</p>
<p>FOO：我很早就在下城醫院工作。但診所是在六年前開的。</p>
<p>問：在近二十多年以來，你都定期來這裏嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：是的。</p>
<p>問：在你看來，從時間順序上來講，唐人街的醫療資源都有哪些變化，例如都有哪些服務，以及人們是怎樣看待醫療系統的？<br>

<br>
FOO：我想這要從兩個方面來講。一個是那些沒有保險的人，新移民，和那些在這裏工作的美國公民。你要知道我們有一個醫學團體叫作CAMS---美籍華人醫學協會---是從50年代開始創立的。現在越搞越大，我們有大約800個會員，大多是本地的。在這些會員中，我們又成立了CAIPA，美籍華人IPA[獨立執業協會]。我們與牛津合作---我們有一個由大約兩百名醫生組成的健康醫療系統，Kwan Tak博士是這個CAMS的主席。我們是最成功的IPA之一，而且是唯一一個面向華人社區的。現在，我們跟其他IPA不同的地方之一就是我們的醫生工作非常努力。他們星期六和星期日也在工作，很晚才關門。我們的醫生，我們的主席Kwan Tak博士有時工作到淩晨十二點。這樣，我們同病人有更多的交流。尤其是那些打兩份或三份工的病人，他們在工作時間不方便看醫生。工作對於他們來講要更加重要。因此，他們周末的時候來這裏看病。因此，我想，從這個方面來講，我們跟他們一直都有聯繫。而且因爲文化方面的因素，我們可能比其他人更加瞭解他們的問題---跟其他醫生相比。唐人街健康診所，也叫作Charles Wang，爲社區做了很多事情。對於那些沒有保險但負擔得起醫療費用的病人，他們的確提供了非常好的服務。但下城醫院，如我剛才提到，我們有專門爲這些社區提供服務的診所。我們設立了唐人街醫療健康合作基金會---抱歉，不是這個名字，華人社區醫療健康合作基金會---負責定期的檢查工作，無線電透視。在不同的公衆場所和醫院診所做健康宣傳，我和我們辦公室的Tao博士、Leung博士要在世界日報上刊登一個半月刊的健康欄目，由編輯部記者[Eva Pan]撰稿。在文章末印有我們的熱線電話號碼，方便病人同我們聯繫。因此，如果他們有任何關於健康方面的問題，或者醫療保險問題，都能夠打電話跟我們聯繫。這是由下城醫院CCPH人員負責的。有時，我會收到從溫哥華或佛羅里達打來的求助電話。我們就是這樣爲社區提供服務幫助他們的。</p>
<p>問：所有這些專業系統在一定程度上使得社區能夠利用自己的醫療資源。他們是否也幫助那些沒有醫療保險的人？</p>
<p>FOO：只是唐人街健康診所，Charles Wang社區中心。但是，從職業角度上來講，還有更激動人心的事情。CAMS---美籍華人醫學協會---不僅是當地而且是<br>

全國性的機構。我們也設立了一個國際性組織，叫作美籍華人醫學協會聯盟（Federation of Chinese American Medical Society），我們與多倫多、溫哥華的中國醫生合作，探討華人社區的一些問題。我們每兩年舉行一次會議，國際會議，在這裏和舊金山。今年十月將是第十二次會議，探討中國患者的問題。我剛才跟你提到的，比如中風問題，要在那裏提出來，這樣大家都會知道。你會在我們的網站上看到相關的摘要。因此，我們盡力爲社區服務，儘量使人們對這些問題産生興趣。因爲我們確實有一些不相關的，或是其他社區的一些不重要的問題。但是這很重要，不解決的話，會成爲全國性的大問題。唐人街---華人社區醫療健康合作基金會不久前做了一項關於學校乙肝的調查。我們得到全國的回應，大家都去接種乙肝疫苗，因爲在我們社區乙肝非常流行。幾乎變成流行病，你不得不去治療。</p>
<p>問：是從哪里傳染來的？</p>
<p>FOO：乙肝？是來自孩子，我們發現，同在這裏出生的人相比，移民有很高的發病率。而且會通過性方式傳染。因此，如果你不治療，最終會成爲一個健康的大問題，你會染上乙肝、肝硬化和肝細胞瘤。因此，實際上是我們開始---，下城紐約大學開始這個專案的。</p>
<p>問：你剛才曾提到，所有這些組織的優勢之一是他們專門面向華人社區，瞭解相關的文化因素。你能否再談一下你所觀察到的與華人就醫需要相關的問題嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：你知道，中國有一套傳統的治療疾病的方法，關於陰和陽，熱和冷的理論。如果你不懂這些，治療起來非常困難。大多數患者不喜歡去醫院是因爲他們有語言障礙，而且習俗也不一樣。例如，我們這樣做了很長時間，即當他們去醫院的時候，他們要喝熱水。他們想要喝溫水。他們不想喝冷水，因爲冷的東西對身體有害。你要是叫醫護人員給你熱水，他們以爲你有問題。“不，我們喝冷水。”我是說，諸如此類的小事會給你帶來麻煩。再有，<br>

他們不習慣吃西方的食物，因此下城專門請了做中餐的廚師，這樣使他們感覺舒服一些。對於那些住院的病人，所有這些小事情都會有很大影響。另外一件事就是毛毯。在睡覺的時候，你不想蓋太多的毛毯。但習慣上，他們都覺得冷，想要兩或者三張毛毯。那些醫護人員---他們覺得，你瘋了，你想要三或四條毛毯對你沒有好處。但他們已經習慣了這些。所以，如此的小事情會帶來很多的不便。這些都是你要處理的事情。</p>
<p>問：我也想知道---你曾經提到無線廣播裏和報紙上有一些拓廣服務的專案。那些是否使用中文，以及是如何運作的？</p>
<p>FOO：是中文的。儘管這是一個非常小的社區，但我想我們這裏至少有五或者六份中文報紙，或者更多。對於成人來講，學習第二種語言相當困難，尤其是同時打三份工，而且又要照顧家庭。因此，我剛才提到的這些都是中文的，我們儘量使用他們的語言來開展工作，然後提供給他們所需的資訊。</p>
<p>問：我想要談一下大的方面，比如你談到一些醫療機構對服務某一特定群體感興趣等一些積極的事情。你覺得是否一貫都如此？</p>
<p>FOO：我覺得現在是有這種動力。我是說，這種動力越來越大。我覺得以前沒有。亞裔健康中心剛剛建立，是由NIH，NIH的經費創立的。在過去，沒有人關心這些。現在，我想，能夠到這種地步的原因在於有很多人在這方面努力。社區，醫生，我們過去一直都致力於這些事情。同時，醫院也在盡力。你要知道，下城醫院百分之六十的病人是亞裔。他們一直努力試圖設立一個委員會。華人健康診所也已創辦了---我想是二十年了。我不知道確切的時間。所有這一切使我們大家認識到---，我們大家都知道這是重要的。而且，當時我們也很高興。現在，有更多的人對這些感興趣。</p>
<p>
問：你是否認爲是下城人口狀況的變化使得人們不得不對此做出反應。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。我想人們更加在意---，對少數裔族的問題更敏感，因爲他們不僅被孤立，而且他們非常重要。同時，他們不僅影響社區本身，而且如果這些問題不處理好會影響到整個國家。因此，如果你看以前的文章報告，我們在談大多數人口，我們談白人，我們談西班牙人，我們談黑人，但沒有多少關於亞裔的。但亞裔人口在不斷增長。下城這裏的亞裔人口每年增長大約百分之十四。他們也在變老。而且，很多也患疾病了。所以我想，我們需要正視這些問題。</p>
<p>問：那麽，在此之前，是不是有很多民間組織在做這些拓廣服務的工作？</p>
<p>FOO：確實沒有人做這些。我想亞裔健康中心是第一個試圖用---，把大家組織起來處理這些問題的。我很高興---例如，我剛提到已經建立了肝臟中心。於是，馬上有很多乙肝，肝硬化，肝細胞瘤患者到那裏。但在這個階段之前，很多社區民衆在做這些事情，照顧病人，反映情況。在不久之前，我想，我們舉行了一次地方會議---這是由白宮發起的---去不同的地方談論健康問題。下城醫院，美籍華人醫學協會，以及加利福尼亞相應的組織---那裏有一家華人醫院---要做這項研究，他們調查了一些老年人，搜集所有的資訊。我們大家都去到會議廳談論這個問題。我不知道是否是因爲這件事引起的，但我想這至少有幫助。因爲大家都有興趣，能夠在一起努力，解決這個問題。</p>
<p>問：9/11後的問題如何？因爲我知道很多人抱怨或擔心下城空氣中有毒素，而且針對下城社區設立了專門的醫療委員會。他們有沒有過問過唐人街社區？你對後9/11時期的問題感想如何？</p>
<p>
FOO：9/11是個非常有創傷力的經歷。我自己深有體會，因爲我們的醫院就在Ground Zero，儘管沒有人談起過這些。因爲我們就在那裏，那裏沒有電，沒有電話，但我們仍在那裏工作，就是憑著員工的這種精神，他們盡力了。我們實際上是用手提電話聯繫。而且我們有一台應急發電機。甚至在那個艱難時刻，我們也盡力幫助社區，提供飲水，照料醫院老年人中心的病人。而且，因爲封了路，病人到我們這裏來更不方便，於是我們準備了一輛車接送社區裏的病人。因此，幫助還是比較及時的，但我想在那之後這個地區的經濟遭受了重大損失。這會影響到有醫療保險的病人。因爲他們失去了工作，沒有事情做。關於他們談到的對肺部影響的問題，我想紐約大學派了一個小組來這裏，我想他們對接觸到毒素的人做了登記，想看一下會有什么後遺症。我是神經學醫生，不是肺病專家，對這方面瞭解不多。但我想他們---有人看這些。我不知道這是否足夠。但這確實需要花費很多精力和經費來做。我不知道現在進展如何。但幾年之後可能會有結果，這些接觸是否會對我們的肺有更多的影響。但我想主要是經濟上的損失，因爲我們失去了很多病人。由於失業，他們也失去了保險。他們沒錢看病。所以，這會是一個問題。</p>
<p>問：有沒有什麽方面做出一些努力來改善這種狀況，在經濟損失和醫療保險方面？</p>
<p>FOO：我想在工作上我們大家都想得到幫助。比如，我在下城上班，在工作上我跟他們的關係很密切。因爲這個問題，病人不能來這裏看病。因爲來的人更少，我們幫不了他們。於是，我們想從聯邦政府和慈善機構那裏獲得一些幫助，解決醫院的經費問題。使我們有能力服務社區。我們在尋求幫助。我們---我們看到---很多人提供幫助，我們需要更多的幫助。</p>
<p>問：我知道你是搞神經學的，但我想你能不能從整體上談一下9/11對唐人街的影響，籠統地講或者在醫療需要方面？</p>
<p>FOO：我們有Charles Wang。理論上，他們會幫助任何需要幫助的人。不管你是否有錢，是否有保險，他們都會幫你的。但問題是因爲經濟在走下坡路，<br>

病人是否還有時間關心自己的健康問題。我剛才提到過，因爲“當你在急診室裏看到他們的時候，他們已經病得不輕了，否則他們不會來這裏的。”因此，你必須---因爲他們要維持生活---他們沒時間看醫生。你可以去唐人街健康診所或者下城醫院，如果他們來尋求幫助，我們應該幫他們。我們確實鼓勵他們來。但問題是他們能不能來，你知道，因爲---他們必須要照顧到另外一個方面。因此，我想我們這裏需要很多幫助。我們必須要重振唐人街經濟。</p>
<p>問：很多報告關注是否石棉對此有影響，但通過你我們得知更多的是機構設置的問題，是否有渠道幫助他們。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。我想如果他們能來這裏，我們會給他們更多的幫助的。而不是說有沒有哮喘或其他病的增加。我想，是的，他們受到了影響。我想強調的另外一件事就是一些機構想要做一些調查[手提電話響]，看能否對這些後果做些研究。如果對我們有影響的話，看能否找到更好的治療方式。</p>
<p>問：你對此有什麽期望，比如，希望在將來看到一些尚未提出的醫學問題會得到解決。</p>
<p>FOO：你不只是講9/11，是不是？好的。我們有我們自己的事情。比如，鼻咽癌。患病的都是中國人或亞洲人，而不是其他種族的。與這相關的有很多事情。中風問題，我們爲什么有這麽人患腦溢血？是因爲他們患有高血壓而沒有得到醫治，還是說是遺傳基因造成的？這些健康上的問題，有一點變化就會造成風險係數的改變。還有公共醫療健康的問題，我們要向公衆多做宣傳教育，幫助他們。肝細胞瘤，乙肝，我剛才提到，“如果你看到大的肝臟，一定是亞洲人，通常是一個腫瘤。”如果是其他種族，可能是肝臟大，或者是脂肪多。但你看到中國人肝大就不是這個原因。在我上醫學院的時候，別人跟我講---我在臺灣學的醫---“如果你看到中國病人肝大，他一定是患了肝細胞瘤，不會是其他的。”我們都知道這些。像TB之類的傳染病，這些移民可能是肺部受到傳染，如果不及時醫治，他們老了之後就會有問題。所有這些問題都有待於進一步的調查和研究。<br>

現在，[傳呼機響]傳統上人們認爲中國人是典型患病少的少數裔族。我們也總是認爲我們身體好，我們的膽固醇低，但是你沒有看到統計，實際上我們的膽固醇是很高的。也許是因爲我們在這裏吃西餐，但這總是一個問題。並不是說，你人瘦，就不會有膽固醇高的問題。我們有很多人患骨質疏鬆症，盆骨或其他部位骨折。這或許是因爲遺傳基因，或者是因爲環境，我們吃的食物，要不就是我們鍛煉的不夠。因此，我們還是有很多問題的。現在，劉博士[CAIPA主席]感興趣的問題之一就是我們甚至還沒有我們自己的資料。骨質疏鬆症的資料只是對西方人的統計，而不是亞洲人的資料。我們應該解決這個問題，做些統計。我們建立的這個亞洲人健康中心就是要鼓勵人們申請經費，做研究，調查所有這些問題。我想在今後幾年裏，我們應該專注亞洲人的健康問題，來幫助自己，讓更多的人對這方面感興趣。</p>
<p>問：這些都是你認爲只有中國人或者華人社區才存在的問題。你能否講的更具體一點，你主要看哪些背景，或哪個年齡段的病人？</p>
<p>FOO：是我自己嗎？</p>
<p>問：是的。</p>
<p>FOO：我看很多病人---我是成年人神經學家---所以我主要看成年病人。因爲神經學的特點，我們看很多中風的老年人，或帕金森病患者。最終，我服務的病人會是老年人。我同時也看很多年輕人，很多偏頭痛患者，很多患背痛的患者，[傳呼機響]類似的一些病症。</p>
<p>問：從這個角度上來看，我想知道你在下城執業的過程中你的病人的組成是否有變化，在移民的人口上或經濟背景方面…</p>
<p>FOO：隨著近期醫療保險的調整，新出來的HMO，在我能看的病和在哪里看這兩個方面會有很大變化。我以前在醫院裏看了很多中風患者，現在仍然是這樣。但是，我們醫院現在沒有這麽多病人了，因爲我們都讓他們儘早出院。<br>

因此，在醫院看病沒有那麽---我們更多時候是出診。當然，這取決於你在哪里工作。我有兩種病人。一種是年輕的，工作階層，覺得有很大壓力或者患偏頭痛，以及背痛。那麽，這是一部分病人。但對於老年病人，他們很多患有中風，帕金森病患者，和其他一些慢性病。</p>
<p>問：這些人看病主要是用HMO或其他---？</p>
<p>FOO：是的，HMO或Medicaid，只是老年病人。</p>
<p>問：我想再談回9/11的問題，你能否再講一下醫院裏發生的事情，以及9/11之後發生的事情。</p>
<p>FOO：如果你9/11當天在那裏，你會非常吃驚看到那些員工的奉獻精神。在事發的時候，我在紐約大學。我正在開會。出來之後看到世貿中心在冒煙。我立即想我要過來。於是，我去到車庫把車開了出來，我在紐約大學兜了三圈，但過不來，因爲道路都被封了。我是說，警察很快就把路封了。我不知道該怎麽辦。我想很多人也不知道該怎樣。但我---我打電話給在哥倫比亞大學的女兒，她說，‘你爲什么不叫警察？’於是，我就想問一下警察。我說，‘我必須要去下城，因爲我在那裏工作。’沒有問題，他們立即讓我過去了。但當我到了的時候已經太晚了，因爲兩座姊妹樓都已經倒了。在那一刹那，我想，急診室裏會有四百多個身上覆滿塵土的病人，這些醫院會照料好的。在我到的時候已經沒有人在等了，大家都在外面等救護車。我們看到救護車進來，又開走，但沒有病人。我們看到進來的大多數是受了傷的工人，消防隊員和警察，十分悲慘。但是，我可以告訴你，每個人都在盡力幫忙，除了幫病人以外，沒有人講其他的事情。醫院蓋滿了塵土，沒有電，電話線也斷了，但大家都在那裏等著幫助別人。情景十分感人。</p>
<p>問：然後呢？</p>
<p>
FOO：在那之後，我想在那之後，我們大家的確十分努力工作，我們確實有很多不便，因爲電話打不通，又沒有電，很難在那裏工作。但每個人士氣都很高，互相幫助，幫助每一個人。我們去附近的地方提供幫助。我想那個時候Logan醫生要讓醫生和護士去附近的老年人家裏，但我們去不了。我們給他們帶去水，想照料他們。我覺得這樣非常好。我們就僅有的資源盡力做更多的事情。在那之後，又過了很長時間才恢復通電。</p>
<p>問：持續了有多久？</p>
<p>FOO：我實在不記得。這是很久之前的事了。但我記得等了很長一段時間。沒有人說，比如，什麽時候發工資，是否生病了，或者有沒有加班費，類似的事情---他們就這樣做了。這樣很好。你看到很多好心人。對此你很開心。在那之後，我們確實有很多不便，因爲有很多路障。病人不能夠到醫院裏來，因爲他們不得不穿過所有這些路障---有一些甚至現在還在那裏。病人不能到醫院來，這樣我們就會有問題，因爲他們不能夠過來找我們。但我想現在是沒有這個問題了。</p>
<p>問：多久之後才又大致恢復正常？</p>
<p>FOO：醫院裏？</p>
<p>問：是的。</p>
<p>FOO：啊---</p>
<p>[第一盤第一面結束；第一盤第二面開始]</p>
<p>FOO：啊，是過了一段時間，我想直到現在還未完全恢復正常，因爲這影響了我們的---周圍地區的聲譽，直到現在。Chatham廣場現在還在封著，因此從那裏很難走那條路線到醫院。而且，你也不能走FBI，那裏有個學校和幾幢樓。因此，我們設立了免費接送唐人街<br>

病人的服務。我們把他們接到醫院來。但這仍然不是很方便。但無論如何，我們都想方設法解決。我們盡了全力。</p>
<p>問：那個時候唐人街民衆的感覺如何？</p>
<p>FOO：對於9/11？</p>
<p>問：9/11之後。</p>
<p>FOO：很糟糕。那個時候，我記得---我從來沒有看到Mott街上的店鋪關門的。我想在9/11之後不久，我看到Mott街上兩三家餐館關門了，這以前從來沒有發生過。所有的衣廠---我聽說這地區大概有一百多家衣廠關閉，因爲你不能把這裏生産出的産品運出去。不通車，你出不去。再加上他們已經快不行了，這樣一下子就關閉了。我聽說現在，你要想在唐人街租寫字樓很容易，因爲衣廠空出來很多地方。所以，很容易租到，因此也使得租金下降。但是，如果你瞭解唐人街，Chatham廣場那些關了的地方正是旅遊汽車和公共汽車站。遊客要從Mott街車站開始，圍繞唐人街觀光。那裏沒有車，就不會有交通。因此，這裏很安靜。現在是好了一些，但那個時候，9/11期間，即使你想去餐館消費，你進去之後也只是你一個人在餐館裏面。因此，這嚴重地影響了經濟。這是肯定的。</p>
<p>問：從什麽時候開始有其他的醫療機構對尤其是唐人街的醫療需要作出反應？你提過Charles Wang，但唐人街還有聯邦政府和州政府的支援。他們有沒有幫助唐人街？</p>
<p>FOO：是的。我想所有事情都是地方做的，是本地社區做的。Charles Wang診所，下城醫院，和一些醫生，他們義務照顧一些特定的病人。實際上，當飛機撞上的時候，很多中國醫生都在下城。一下子，社區裏的人主動關掉他們的店鋪和辦公室，來到醫院義務服務。很遺憾事件發生的時候，我們的醫生比病人還要多，但確實有很多人來幫忙。有的時候---我想<br>

在那個時候，事件發生的時候，大多數辦公室都關門了。不是說醫生不想過來，而是他們過不來。你來不了。病人也沒有辦法就醫。我在醫院裏待了一段時間，因此醫院一直開門。需要醫療照顧的人都能進來。因此我想都是當地的努力。當然，這不像SARS，用不著動員整個國家。倒沒有這個必要。大概都是當地的努力。很多人都很忙，在那段時間都不知道發生了什麽事情。我想倒沒有什麽特殊的需要。那時，我兒子還是醫科院學生。他們去了---一個在西邊的---政府實際上在Chelsea一帶建了一個手術室，那裏有很多手術臺。但是，那裏並沒有用上。一切都已經安排好了。我想政府對這個災難事件的反應十分迅速。但實在是沒有病人需要他們的幫助。</p>
<p>問：不是那些方面的幫助。</p>
<p>FOO：不是那些方面的幫助，沒錯。</p>
<p>問：你認爲這種影響將是長期的還是---</p>
<p>FOO：是的。將來會發生什么事情。但我想無論發生什麽樣的緊急事件，幾秒之內就會發生。在那之後不會有任何幫助的。</p>
<p>問：你提到對SARS的恐懼。你對那個的經歷怎樣？有什麽不同？</p>
<p>FOO：是個不好的經歷。我想聽起來要更加糟糕。當時，儘管我們知道唐人街還沒有SARS，別人看到我們說，‘你是中國人，你一定有SARS。’因此那時沒有人到唐人街餐館來吃飯。如果你看到有人在這裏，那一定是中國人，因爲我們要支援社區，我們要來這裏。沒有任何事情---人們擔心染上SARS，認爲會在這裏受到傳染。但很幸運，我們這裏沒有SARS，但不幸的是這嚴重影響了這裏的經濟。</p>
<p>問：這要持續多長時間？<br>

FOO：我很難講確切的時間，但的確持續了很長一段時間。是這樣的。我想現在經濟形式有了好轉，但仍有很多的事情要做。其他的我就不知道了。我是說，我只是醫生，我不懂經濟，但我想你可以做很多事情來刺激經濟的發展。</p>
<p>問：我想再換個話題---因爲你提到你的兒子在讀醫學院，我想再瞭解一下你個人的情況，因爲你是在臺灣國立大學接受的訓練---</p>
<p>FOO：是的。</p>
<p>問：你是在臺灣長大的嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：不是。</p>
<p>問：在哪里---</p>
<p>FOO：我在馬來西亞出生。在汶萊長大，去臺灣讀的醫學院。我想---我的家人分散到各地，一些在澳大利亞，有一個在加拿大。那時我父親從中國去了馬來西亞，因爲躲避戰亂。於是，我們就到了那裏。</p>
<p>問：你是什麽時候來美國的？</p>
<p>FOO：我想實際情況是在馬來西亞和汶萊生活很困難，因爲你擔心得不到身份。儘管我工作非常努力，對人也很友善---我在很多地方都有很多朋友。我在臺灣的時候，實際上，我有一些朋友，對中藥非常感興趣。那是在臺灣國立大學。在我畢業的時候，我們的CR，即主任，把Harrison整本內科教科書翻譯成中文。希望我們能夠用中文學習，這樣也容易和我們的病人交流。這是我們做的第一件事。在此之後，我們又出版了一個叫作今日醫藥的刊物，主要針對使用中文的執業醫生，使他們熟悉中文的醫藥術語。還有，我們面向公衆出了一本雜誌，叫作健康世界，<br>

現在還有。我很自豪能夠做這些。而且，那時，美國是你學醫深造的地方。於是我父親建議，‘你爲什麽不去美國，多學習一些知識？’這樣，我就到這裏來了。很幸運，我去了Bridgeport的St. Vicent’s，之後又去了紐約大學學神經學。畢業之後，因爲我在Bellevue的經驗，知道亞洲人如果病得不重不會去醫院的。我想，也許我應該來唐人街，更加接近他們。這樣就開始了這些事情。</p>
<p>問：你翻譯醫學教科書是不是因爲中文的教育系統不是很規範？</p>
<p>FOO：在那個時候，美國的醫療技術是最發達的，因此所有先進、最新的知識都來自美國。中國人接觸不到這些。因此，如果我們能把它們翻譯成中文，我們能使更多的醫生和病人看到這些材料，是一件好事情，於是就這樣做了。那時十分有趣的一件事情就是心理學，有一個精神科醫生，Tseng博士，在夏威夷學的醫。他回來之後創辦了很多事情---對我們的影響很大。他翻譯了很多精神病學的書籍，包括Freud的夢的解析---我和我的一些朋友也有參與。我們想把那些知識帶到中國。說到這裏，其實唐人街地區在精神健康方面確實有很多問題。我不知道你是否知道這裏老年婦女的自殺率非常高。因爲大多數移民到這裏之後受到不同文化的衝擊，他們忙於工作，照顧家人。他們的孩子儘管很出色，但他們不一定和他們的父母有同樣的文化或想法。因此，那些移民年紀大了之後，退休之後，就變得很迷茫，不知道要去哪里。經常看到一些中國病人，老年病人，患憂鬱症。他們非常憂鬱，因爲他們想是他們死的時候了。沒有別的什么事情要做。因此，Chung博士，Henry Chung，一名精神科醫生，想申請經費，致力於這裏精神病方面的工作。我認爲這非常好。同時，剛成立的亞裔健康中心的部分職責也包括這些方面。在二十幾年前，我們就需要做一些事情，現在是時候了。</p>
<p>問：實際上你剛才提到過這個，只不過是用另外一種方式，即使西方醫學更加符合中國文化的需要。你是否覺得心理學很難對中國人適用，因爲它屬於純西方的文化？</p>
<p>
FOO：我想你必須要考慮文化因素。中國和西方非常不同。我甚至不理解---中國名著之一叫作“紅樓夢”。如果你讀過，你會知道它主要是講中國的文化結構如何，家庭結構如何，而我們每個人作爲個體是不重要的---家庭是重要的。而你重要是因爲你在家庭裏重要。所以，賈寶玉，裏面的男主角，只不過是個普通人，但因爲他將繼承---他要成爲家庭的代言人，所以大家都要對他示好，並且使他成爲很重要的人物。如果你失去那個身份，你將不會處在那個地位。所以，在中國文化中，我們大家都是整個家庭的一部分，而不是獨立的。這種思想對於受西方教育的人來講是很難接受的。這裏的中國第二代移民吸收了美國的文化。這有很大的不同，我想甚至在中國，由於世界變得越來越小，很多事情都變了。因此，你需要---你確實要考慮這些因素。看精神科醫生對一個中國人來講是很困難的，因爲這是一種恥辱---你“瘋了”，所以你才要去看病。但這不是事實。我是說，有一些事情你不能講，而整個價值觀念在改變，因此我認爲我們要努力幫助自己人。</p>
<p>問：也許這是另外一個需要。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。這是最重要的需要，我想。健康，精神健康問題，是每個人都忽視的最重要的需要。很少看西方精神科醫生的另外一個原因是文化差異。人們的表達方式完全不同。也許有一些你想說的東西你不能用英語表達，那他就是幫不到你。</p>
<p>問：是不是有什麽大規模的中國心理學運動或精神病學團體？</p>
<p>FOO：我想我們剛剛開始搞。當然有---，現在美國有很多亞裔人。有更多的亞裔人學醫，他們中的一些將成爲心理學家。</p>
<p>問：再稍微打斷一下---</p>
<p>FOO：好的。</p>
<p>
問：你剛才講過，在臺灣之後，你又來到美國，在那個時候你開始對這裏的華人社區感興趣。你在唐人街住嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：我不住在唐人街。我住在新澤西。我開始的時候想---剛開始的時候，我還是住院醫生。我住在Water Tower---那裏有一座樓。後來，我沒錢住那裏了。我想我來這裏的時候和其他移民一樣，兩手空空。因此，如果我用我的全部薪水交房租，我的孩子會不高興的，他們會非常失望的。於是，我決定搬到Elmhurst住，我的朋友也幫了我一些忙。當我的孩子長大了一些的時候，我想，他們想更加融入美國文化和社會，因此我能做的唯一的事情就是去郊區，在那裏他們會很高興有很多---住很多房間。於是，我又搬到新澤西，Jersey北部，在那裏把他們帶大。</p>
<p>問：但儘管如此，很明顯在職業上以及你本人方面，你仍然和華人以及華人社區有密切的聯繫。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。<br>
問：在Jersey有華人社區嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：沒有。</p>
<p>問：你住的附近？<br>
FOO：我住的地方是一個非常小的社區，但我主要的活動都是在唐人街和Elmhurst。在我的孩子很小的時候，我送他們去中文學校。如果你家裏是中國家庭，你知道這有多麽困難。我帶他們---，我星期六和星期日休息，帶他們去學校。他們會恨你一輩子。我有四個孩子。我設法讓老大、老二上中文學校，後兩個我就放棄了。我放棄了。因爲這的確是一種折磨。他們講英文，他們不在學校講中文，他們的朋友講英文。你讓他們學習一種非常難的語言。他們就是不學。但幸運的是，世界將變得越來越小。當他們上大學的時候，他們會意識到---有一種語言他們不得不學。他們必須要學。因此，他們在大學裏主修中文。因爲這個原因，我建了個網站，心想我懂得一些，<br>

也許能夠幫助他們學中文，並且讓他們瞭解中國文化。而且，不僅僅是他們。因爲我不知道這會對他們有多大影響。於是，我建了個網站，這樣任何人，包括我的同事，能夠看到，任何人如果對中文感興趣都可以學習。</p>
<p>問：你的孩子都在學中文嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：是的。他們在大學主修中文。我很驚奇，因爲我是按照傳統方式學的中文---平時你講中文，在學校你讀中文，我們已經習慣這種學習方式。因此，我們不用“拼音”學。但有一天我發現我的孩子能講中文，能讀中文，找這些字。我以爲他們不能做這些。於是我就查---，我上網，鍵入“pinyin，”他們就能找到中文字。而且，他們能寫下來。這就促使我自己也學這個。因此，通過那個工具[“pinyin”]，我想，也許我能告訴他們所有我想告訴他們的事情，而這些在他們小的時候我還做不到。因此我在試著做這些。我非常感興趣的事情之一就是在繪畫中教他們學中文。當你看很多中國繪畫的時候，你非常喜歡，看起來也美，但字，一些書法就很難看懂。你不知道是什么。看起來漂亮，但你不知道是什么。知道那些內容很重要。因爲那是繪畫的一部分。我跟他們講的一個例子，你可以看我的網站，就是蓮。你可能很奇怪爲什么中國繪畫中有這麽多蓮。有一篇論文專門講蓮，講它所代表的很多涵義。我們這樣做是有很多象徵意義的。我的網站上有這些書法，有它們的出處，我把整篇文章都貼在那裏。但有幾樣非常重要的事情是他們要學的。只是幾個字。這不僅幫助他們擴大辭彙量，但同時也可以瞭解中國文化。那麽，爲什么是蓮呢？蓮長在很肮髒，很泥濘的池塘裏。但蓮花是非常美麗的。花的味道也很香。它象徵著君子。你用不著出生在富庶的家庭裏。倒不是說這樣不好。但你可以來自任何普通的環境，甚至是泥裏。但你可以是一位君子，一個很好的人，只要你自己懂得如何照料自己。這就是它的涵義。</p>
<p>問：很抱歉。我想再談回唐人街。作爲來這裏的移民，你能否談一下你眼中的唐人街有哪些變化？</p>
<p>
FOO：中國移民一共有兩大類---我是幸運的一類，因爲我有自己的專業。在朝鮮戰爭時期，醫生很緊缺。這些都幫我建立我的---啊，不好意思，是越南戰爭---這一切都會幫助醫生職業，幫助我在這裏建立一個家庭。因此，我不必去幹餐館做服務員，或做其他事情。我來這裏之後很快就找到了工作。我所要做的事情就是提高我的英文，接受醫學訓練。但經濟上我還過得去。那些不得不改變他們的專業的人就不同了，他們不能從事在自己國家從事的事業，由零開始。沒有語言能力，沒有地方住，只好擠在唐人街。你能做的唯一一件事情便是去衣廠，或者去餐館做服務員。你不能做其他的工作。因此，一個教授來這裏做這些是很悲慘的。實際上，我的一個老師來到這裏，待了兩個星期之後又回去了，因爲他受不了這些。我是說，這很貶低人，一個學校的校長來這裏端盤子。因此，這是很不同的事情。我很幸運屬於第一類。但對於很多移民，這是很大的挑戰。不光是有這些變化，你也沒有錢，你還要養活孩子，你不得不端盤子。很多時候，他們不得不打兩份或三份工來維持生活。因此，他們沒有太照顧自己，健康上或者教育上。因此，這很悲傷。我想這是很多移民的情況。不僅是中國人，而且---</p>
<p>問：你認爲這仍然是唐人街的情況嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：是的。我是說，那些來到這裏的人，除非他們有自己的專業，他們上學，讀書，不得不做同樣的努力。這就是爲什麽衣廠、餐館對他們非常重要。如果經濟不好，我想那些移民在這裏的生活也不好過。如果你去唐人街，看他們住的地方，你將很吃驚---地方會有多么小，他們是怎樣擠在一個小地方，以及他們不得不打廉價工度日。</p>
<p>問：在很長一段時間，唐人街有不同的移民潮，似乎總是在努力保持社區的身份，因爲一旦移民，或者是他們的第二代，有一點兒成功，他們就會搬走的。你認爲這麽多年來這些有沒有改變？現在人們是不是更經常回來投資做一些社區服務，或在唐人街投資？</p>
<p>FOO：我想在中國長大的人一定要出去，對不對？不可能大家都擠在這裏。尤其是做一些局限在當地的活動。這樣很多人都能夠幫上忙。<br>

但我希望更多的成功的華人能夠回來幫助社區。比如，我們爲醫院籌款，因爲我們百分之六十五的病人是華人。讓那些成功的華人來到唐人街，捐款支援社區建設是很困難的。他們更願意把錢捐給哥倫比亞，給哈佛大學，因爲這樣做更令人敬佩。他們也許沒有想到要幫助一家本地的社區醫院。但我希望他們能改變主意，更多地幫助我們，這樣他們能夠幫到這裏更多的人。</p>
<p>問：醫院能不能向州或聯邦政府申請，還是說一切都要靠慈善機構？</p>
<p>FOO：是的，當然，你知道只有聯邦才能幫助我們。不知你知不知道，在最近幾年，我們甚至有香港---香港明星來這裏幫助這個華人社區健康基金會籌款。我們每兩年舉行一次演唱會，我們得到很多社區的幫助。確實有很多人在幫助我們，但我們需要更多人幫助。</p>
<p>問：你是否覺得你們醫院這樣的醫療機構在社區裏的地位沒有受到足夠的重視？</p>
<p>FOO：不是的，我想人們已意識到它的重要性。問題是人們是不是會說，‘好的，我要提供更多的幫助---因爲你不能把別人給你的錢花在---9/11事件的發生，醫院是---我們的資金比較少。我給你舉一個例子。比如說，如果他們的預算是一百萬美元。如果你的HMO占百分之十，這樣你就失去一千萬美元。其他仍是一樣。如果你病人人數減少，那你的成本就增加了。我們僅是談這些小錢。因此，我們必須要做更多的努力使預支平衡。但是，你知道，我們確實需要人來幫助做這些事情。我們需要人來做---，設備，以及其他事情，這樣我們才能更好地爲社區服務。我不是說我們現在沒有，只不過我們需要更多。</p>
<p>問：那麽說，經濟的下滑使大家都受到了影響。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。</p>
<p>
問：你希望唐人街的將來會是什么樣子？你覺得唐人街在未來會怎樣？</p>
<p>FOO：中國人民非常勤勞。他們工作十分努力。他們很少抱怨。我希望唐人街會繁榮起來。我覺得除非經濟好轉起來，否則會很艱難。我們依賴衣廠，餐館，遊客到這裏來。在9/11之後我們有很多問題。因此，我們現在很難做事情。新移民來了之後，他們也許會關注這個地區，因爲語言上的問題。因此，我們需要更多人來做這些，爲他們提供幫助。還有，我剛才提到過的亞裔健康中心，它的建立會讓我們爲社區做更多的事情。這會使他們幫助我們找到一些問題，滿足他們醫療健康的需要。我想做的另外一件事情就是讓更多的人對中國文化感興趣。我認爲這十分重要。如果你向別人介紹，使別人對你的文化感興趣，瞭解你的文化，這是交流的一種方式。這就是爲什麽我投入一些精力來“學習中文”。倒不是說中文比其他語言高級，只不過是因爲中國文化持續了五千年。我們可以做很多事情來幫助其他人更好地瞭解中國文化。因此，語言會是一個問題。但你可以使這個過程變得更加容易一些，還有電腦，以及一些新的軟體，這會使其他人更加瞭解我們。而這對美國也有好處，因爲我們是一個多文化社會，大家在一起生活，我們彼此瞭解，這樣我們才能把這個國家建設得更好。</p>
<p>問：謝謝你。</p>
<p>FOO：不客氣。</p>
<p>問：在結束之前，你還有什麽要補充的嗎？</p>
<p>FOO：我想在博物館工作。[笑聲] 我在想---付出更多給博物館就是給中國文化做更多的貢獻。我想到的一件事情就是中國人的姓。我父親很有意思，給我二十多部在不同時代出版的Foo家家譜。從那裏我可以追溯我的祖先---直系祖先---一直到第一個，甚至比這還要早。因此，我想，追溯祖先十分重要。你怎樣才能知道這些。我們有家族詩。你知道大多數中國人<br>

的名字有三個字，對不對？我們沒最後的名，我們只有姓。姓是第一個字。最後一個實際上是你的名字。中間是這一代人的名字。你從家族詩中起這一代人的名字。因此，如果我們有相同的姓，我告訴你我中間的名，你會知道我是家裏的第幾代。現在可能已經沒有這些了，但我想人們瞭解這些會有好處，會知道中國文化是怎樣來的。所以，我會跟博物館講這些的。</p>
<p>問：因此，這裏有更多的文化歷史---正如你所講，唐人街不僅僅是一個旅遊景點。</p>
<p>FOO：是的。很有必要讓人們瞭解中國的文化，結構是怎樣的。這還只是名字。實際上還有很多經典的東西，看我的網站就知道了。我還在搞那些材料。</p>
<p>問：好的。非常感謝你。</p>
<p>FOO：好的。很高興接受你的採訪。有任何需要請儘管跟我講。</p>
<p>[採訪結束]</p>