Jeanne Jackson

Jeanne Jackson

transcription

interview

Jeanne Jackson

Teri Chan

2004-07-12

English

employment agency

Q: My name is Teri Chan and I am here to interview Jeanne Jackson, and the location is 126 East Broadway, Chinatown, New York. Can you state your full name?

Jackson: Yes. It’s Jeanne Lee Jackson.

Q: I’m going to ask you a very unusual question. Why is your last name Jackson?

Jackson: Because my husband, he is from Shanghai, when he came to America and he became a citizen, he was so happy to be an American citizen, so instead of Jackson Lee, he just switched it to Lee Jackson. They asked him if he wanted to change his name, because back in the sixties, they used to interview for, you know for citizenship one by one, one person at a time. It wasn’t in like a big group like they do now.

Q: Did he ever request or petition to switch his last name?

Jackson: No, he makes a joke, he says, “My great-grandfather was Andrew Jackson.” [laughs] But when I was first married, you know, people in a department store, they were wondering was my husband English, or would be black. There’s no Chinese person named Jackson. [laughs] And my kids, you know, they get teased, Jackson five, or Jackson six.

Q: Do any of your children want to switch their last name?

JACKSON: No.

Q: They’re happy with it.

JACKSON: Yeah, right.

Q: How did you guys met?

JACKSON: We met through the newspaper [laughs]

Q: Tell---

JACKSON: I used to belong to the Ging Hawk Club, which was a club for the Asian ladies, and we were at Central Park, going ice-skating, and then we picked up the local newspaper from Chinatown, and it said “Free Chinese Lessons.” And since I’m an American-born Chinese, I always wanted to take Chinese lessons. So we said we’d enquire, and that’s how we met. He was giving lessons.

Q: What was---

JACKSON: ---And I was his student.

Q: When was this?

JACKSON: Back in 1960.

Q: Okay, let me backtrack a little bit. When were you born, where were you born?

JACKSON: I was born in February, 1940, in New York City, Manhattan.

Q: Where did you grow up?

JACKSON: And I grew up in Green Point, Brooklyn. My mother had a hand laundry, and went to the elementary school, PS 34, Junior High School 126, and then on to Long Island City High School.

Q: What was it like growing up in Fort Greene?

JACKSON: Green Point.

Q: Green Point, I’m sorry.

JACKSON: Okay, well, at that time it was sort of the end of World War II, and I was the only Asian child in that elementary school and so I faced a lot of discrimination. Also I was kind of naughty. The teacher used to put me under her desk. But the kids used to say, “Chinky-Chinky Chinaman,” and made all kinds of funny names at me. And I always tried to fight back, because I was very proud to be Chinese-American. And I guess because of the war, World War II, that had an effect on people’s thinking of Asian people.

Q: How did you fight back?

JACKSON: Well, in Junior High School, they used to want to fight with me after school, and because I was always very, very, brave. I always challenged them. I said, Okay, we’ll fight, and we would fight after school in some place, you know, groups of kids would come and watch us fight.

Q: Was it boys, or girls, or----

JACKSON: Boys and girls.

Q: Different ethnic groups?

JACKSON: Mostly Polish. Polish and Irish.

Q: And did that continue to happen, after high school?

JACKSON: When in high school, no. In high school it wasn’t so bad because high school was in the Long Island City high school. And it was, you know, the discrimination was a little better, because I graduated back in 1957. I only went three years, ’54 to ’57 in high school. I had a lot of fun in high school, too. I stayed with mostly some of Asians---there was very few Asian people, too, about three or four. And we used to go bowling, play basketball.

Q: Did you integrate with any kids from Chinatown?

JACKSON: No, no, because we lived in Green Point, Brooklyn, and you had to take the G subway, it was about maybe 45 minutes.

Q: Did you help out with your parents in the laundry?

JACKSON: Yes. I had to, in the morning, my parents had this laundry where you had to starch the clothes and fill the laundry bags, and I had to set up the starching area, and then my mother used to hand roll the collars, and I used to put the dirty clothes into bags for the wet wash company to pick up. The best part of the laundry business was giving the customers their packages and collecting the money. And then I said to myself, “Oh, I hope I never marry a laundry man. The work is so hard.”

Q: How old were you when you started helping your parents?

JACKSON: I think I was about ten, eleven.

Q: And how long did that last?

JACKSON: Oh, for a couple of years.

Q: And where did your parents come from? Were they born here?

JACKSON: No. My mother was born in Massachusetts, but my father came from Guangzhou, China.

Q: Let’s talk about your father’s family first.

JACKSON: Yes.

Q: When did he come to the United States? Is his family here now, or----

JACKSON: My father came, I believe, when he was in his early 20s. He was a paper son, he had to buy paper to come. And then, he worked. He always says he had to pay three thousand dollars. He owed three thousand dollars to come to America and he had to pay back the money. And then later on, he went back to China because, I think, he wanted to get married. And he was so lucky that someone introduced my mother to him. My mother went back to China when she was very young, because her mother died, my grandmother, and her father shipped all the three (young) kids back to China. And so they met. My mother was only fifteen when she married my father.

Q: And when did they come back to the United States?

JACKSON: Yes, back in 1936. At that time, China was already at war with Japan, and my mother luckily she was an American citizen, so she was able to come back to America. Whereas a lot of other men, they couldn’t bring their wives over.

Q: When she came back, what was the ratio between men and women?

JACKSON: There were more men than women. And in fact my mother says it took her three years to learn how to go to Chinatown. We used to live on 42^nd Street and 3^rd Avenue, and it took her three years to learn how to go to Chinatown, and my father was afraid that the men would snatch her away, because there was such a shortage of Asian women

Q: Your parents speak Chinese or English?

JACKSON: My parents spoke Chinese. But let’s see, when I was born, my mother contracted tuberculosis, and she had to be sent to a sanatorium, and I was sent to an orphanage. At the sanatorium Upstate, that’s where she learned English. It was very hard for my father because he had to go visit my mother, and he had to go see me at the orphanage.

Q: How long did you stay in the orphanage, and how old were you?

JACKSON: I was just, I was very young. I think I was only maybe a couple of months old. And I stayed in the orphanage until my godmother---she used to take in foster children, and the she became my godmother. She lived in Brooklyn.

Q: Was she Chinese?

JACKSON: She was Chinese, yes. And she took in a lot of foster children, whose parents were sick, or away.

Q: You remember that experience of living with her?

JACKSON: I was really, very young, but I always loved my godmother. They were always so nice to me. Nicer than my own parents. [laughs] My godfather had a restaurant on Nassau Street in Manhattan, and I remember he had a Model T Ford, and I would go with him to buy vegetables on Essex Street.

Q: And eventually your mother recovered?

JACKSON: Yes, eventually my mother, yes, and then I came back to live with my parents.

Q: Do you have brothers and sisters?

JACKSON: Yes, I have one brother, and I have two younger sisters. My brother is a physician, he is a psychiatrist, and I have two younger sisters, one is teaching, and one is working in a supermarket in California.

Q: Do you have any kids?

JACKSON: Yes, I have four. I have one daughter and three sons. And I have fourteen grandchildren, right now.

Q: Do you talk to your children about your experience growing up, the family history?

JACKSON: Well, yes, because when we were growing up we were really very poor. Because my parents had to support three families, they had to support my dad’s family in China, my mother had to support her dad, and then take care of us. So we never had toys or things. I mean, we were lucky we had food on the table. Even though you grow up poor, you can be poor but you can still be human. And our parents, they worked so hard for us, we really love our parents so much. They sacrificed so much for us four kids.

Q: Let’s go back where you graduate from college. What did you do, before you got married?

JACKSON: I used to work for Chase Manhattan Bank. I worked there for six years, I became a section supervisor after I graduated from their school, and then I met husband. We only met, within three months, we got married. [laughs] We used to date at Junior’s in downtown Brooklyn, and then my husband was a printer at that time. He had his own little printing business, and then we opened up a take-out (restaurant) and I didn’t know a thing about Chinese restaurants. So I had to learn everything, how to make wontons, how to make spare ribs. We opened a little restaurant (take out place) in Brooklyn, and since we only had four hundred dollars, at that time, back in ’61, we were so lucky, we did everything ourselves. We built a walk-in refrigerator, we put down the floors, painted the store. And the cooks, they loaned us some money, they said, “Well, you could pay us later.”

And so, we had a little take-out place. And my daughter was born then, and we used to have a playpen in front of the store. Kids used to come and play with her, because we used to sell chow mien in the cup for twenty-five cents, spare ribs and fried rice, fifty cents, for lunch, and this was at junior high school, Hudde Junior High School, on Nostrand Avenue and Avenue J.

Q: How long did you have the restaurant business for?

JACKSON: We had the take-out business for about three years, and then we opened up a restaurant on Avenue P. And by that time, my second child was coming, and so we had to really stop doing the restaurant business because it’s hard to get help in babysitting. And then we went into real estate in Manhattan.

Q: Tell me about the real estate business.

JACKSON: Well, we bought our first building on East Second Street, it was a twenty-four family. And there was never a super. I had to learn how to be a super, a janitor, and used to take a bucket of water up five flights of stairs (to wash and sweep the hallway). Besides watching my children, I did that and managed the building. And then take care of a number two boiler in the basement. So all these, you learn first hand by doing. A good experience.

Q: Where were you living at that time?

JACKSON: Well, from Brooklyn we moved to East Second Street in Manhattan.

Q: Was your lifestyle back then, typical of Chinese family, or untypical?

JACKSON: Ah, typical of a Chinese family? Well, because I’m born here, I guess I’m more modern. My children went to Headstart. I was involved and volunteered (at Headstart & elementary school), I was a translator for the parents who were newly immigrants, and so I did a lot of volunteer work and plus take care of my own children. And I didn’t have any help, because my parents still worked.

Q: Were you able to communicate with the people, did you feel culturally connected to those people, the new immigrants?

JACKSON: I guess they always thought that because I’m born here, they always say, “You know, you’re chuhsane, you’re American-born” It’s a little different. I respect whatever they want to do, and I think they respect me. It’s a little different.

Q: What are the differences, and what are the similarities between you and---

JACKSON: ---and the ones from China? Well, first of all it’s the language. The language is a big problem, and then in the rearing of children. They’re very protective of the children. Whereas my children, I used to let them go to the Fresh Air Camp, they couldn’t believe my children were so young, six or seven years old, and I let them go to camp for two weeks. Because I wanted my children to be independent, and to learn other people’s culture, and also to have fun, because you’re living in the city, we never had money to go on vacation, because we were always working.

Q: And do you guys have different ways of disciplining your children?

JACKSON: Well, I’m the good guy, and my husband was the bad guy. So thank God. That’s why I think every child needs a mother and father, because it’s very hard for one parent---I think it’s very hard. If it wasn’t for their father, I don’t know how I would manage.

Q: I want to backtrack a little bit. As a woman, I’m very curious about your experience working with Chase. Were you one of the few Asian people working, or the few Asian women working, and what was that like?

JACKSON: Yes. At Chase Manhattan, this was at the headquarters, the main office, stock transfer department. There were only three Asians in this big office building. I supervised five part-timers, and I enjoyed it very much, supervising, but when I first started as a typist, it was so boring. And I learned how to smoke. But I used to do a lot of overtime, because my parents were very old-fashioned, and I didn’t have time to date, and it was either work, or school, work, and school, and so I feel, you know, you have to pay your dues, if you want to get ahead.

Q: Was there any stereotype about you as an Asian woman? Do you think there was any stereotype about you?

JACKSON: No, not really. I think they respected me. My godfather always said, “You know, since you’re Asians, and so few, you always have to do better, and show that you are conscientious, really conscientious, and do a good job and then people will see it. Have to because we want other Asians to be able to come in and get jobs.”

Q: Let’s go forward a little bit and talk about your real estate business. Do you still have the real estate business, and how much---

JACKSON: Yes, when my children were young, I went to school and I became a salesman first and then a real estate broker, and I also studied insurance. And my office has been here since 1973. And I also built my office. It was no walls, no floor, it was really a dump. This area was very dilapidated, but gradually, since ’73, business is pretty good, at least the south Florida property, in Lehigh. And we do management and leasing (of residential and commercial properties).

Q: Who are your clients?

JACKSON: Who---

Q: Who are your clients, what are their backgrounds?

JACKSON: Since my office is located--- it varies, I have black people, Jewish people, some Chinese. That’s why I like where my office is, because it’s a variety. I meet a lot of people, they come to me for the notary public signing, insurance. It’s very transit, my area.

Q: Are the same clients still coming back, or do you have more Chinese clients now because Chinatown has expanded?

JACKSON: Well, since it’s so transit, we used to have a lot of old clients, but now since there’s a lot of competition, and more people opened up their own business in Chinatown, and so like now, because East Broadway is little Fukzhao City, because the people speak that dialect, and I don’t speak their dialect so I’m a little handicapped with that. But there’s a lot of competition in real estate and in insurance. But at least still I’ve been able to maintain our business, we’ve been here so long, since 1973.

Q: How do you keep up with all the competition? Do you have new ways of doing business?

JACKSON: Well, we try to give the best service, and since I do income tax also. So if they have a question, I always try to help them and I don’t charge them extra, things like that. So our service is different. Because really our business is (service oriented) for everybody and everybody does their business differently. But, in order to survice, anybody can go into business, but to stay in business, that’s the whole key. A lot of people want to open a business, and then the next day, or the next two years, they’re gone. But we have survived, so we had to be doing something right.

Q: You mention they speak a different dialect, Fukanese, and you obviously don’t---

JACKSON: I speak Toisanese. But my husband’s lucky, he speaks three dialects. He speaks Shanghainese, Mandarin, Cantonese, and some English.

Q: So how do you overcome the language barrier to serve the new clients?

JACKSON: My secretary speaks Mandarin, and my husband hires the Fukanese help from the employment agency.

Q: Tell me a little bit about your husband’s employment agency.

JACKSON: The employment agency, he has a lot of different sections. He has about thirty girls working for him. And he does mainly the restaurant, anything in the restaurant line, and he sends people all over, from Puerto Rico, all the ways up to Buffalo, and then Massachusetts, and to Chicago because he has the oldest employment agency now in Chinatown. And now a lot of the new ones have open, his competitions, years ago there were only three, now there’s about fifty, a lot of people here, they worked for him and then they opened up their own employment agency.

And now, the jobs are sort of scarce, because of 9/11 and economy.

Q: Tell me the impact of 9/11 on your business and your husband’s business.

JACKSON: Well, we didn’t have phone service for about a month and a half, and that was difficult, because we had to put signs up, and we used the cell phone. Verizon gave us cell phones, so we ordered about thirty cell phones. And business was very quiet, and Chinatown was like a ghost town the first few days. There was nobody around, and we still smelled the smoke, because we’re only about twelve blocks away. It really had a bad impact on Chinatown, a lot of people lost their jobs, and business closed up.

Q: You got any help from any of the 9/11 relief programs?


JACKSON: No, we didn’t. Well, we tried to, we were going to apply, but then we saw the paperwork was this high, and they really asked an awful lot of questions, so we didn’t apply, because there was too much red tape.

Q: Did you help any of your clients apply, since you do income tax and insurance?

JACKSON: My clients---they went to apply themselves, and when they came to do the income tax, they didn’t realize that the grants that they got they had to pay tax on it. So I had one client that got a grant for her business in Chinatown, and for her house in Brooklyn, and then when it came to tax time, she didn’t realize she had to pay about $18,000 was taxable.

Q: So there was bad side effects?

JACKSON: Right. I think if a lot of people knew they were. I met the other people and they said that they don’t want to, want the government to come and check your home, to see if you really bought that air conditioner, or that air cleaner. They just didn’t want to be bothered.

Q: So, in short it wasn’t effective for you or your clients.

JACKSON: The grants?

Q: Yes.

JACKSON: Well, I guess some people really needed the grants, and a lot of people were unemployed, so I guess it helped a little. We got the grants, we signed a two-year lease, got some grants, $6,000 grants----I live in Confucius Plaza, and part of it was taxable. So that’s a help. Everything’s a help.

Q: How did you hear about the grants after 9/11?

JACKSON: To tell you the truth, I didn’t know about it. I was at a meeting, and somebody---I was at a party, or a meeting, and somebody mentioned these grants that you could sign up the Chinese-American bank. Because I don’t read the Chinese newspapers, so I’m handicapped that way, I didn’t even know about it, so then I went to inquire, and that’s how I got that LMCD grant.

Q: So you didn’t read that grant on mainstream newspaper, English newspaper?

JACKSON: Well, yeah, I read the English newspaper, but they didn’t have much information on those grants. And then you hear something, maybe funny business going on, so I didn’t pay much attention.

Q: Where were you on the day of 9/11?

JACKSON: I was in Confucius Plaza community room working. That was the primary day. I remember very vividly, it was primary day, and in that room, there’s no TV, no radio. Working since 5:30 in the morning, that’s when we started, and it was about, I think. about 10:30 where people start coming in and saying there’s no more, no more World Trade Center. And they were very upset and screaming, so we went out to take a look and we saw the smoke coming, the black smoke. And then we were just, everybody was so shocked, was in a state of shock, and then they said we can close up at 11:30. And then, Confucius Plaza wanted to evacuate the whole two buildings.

Q: Why?

JACKSON: Because there were rumors that they were going to bomb Confucius Plaza next. We didn’t know, but that was the rumor. So they evacuated everybody, the super had to knock on everybody’s door and tell you to go out, and everyone was standing around in the grounds.

Q: Where is Confucius Plaza?

JACKSON: Confucius Plaza is located on the Bowery between Division and the Manhattan Bridge.

Q: Where did you evacuate to?

JACKSON: Well, I was so tired from all the commotion, and getting up at 5:30 in the morning, that I stayed in my apartment, and took a nap. [laughs]

Q: Where was your family at this time?

JACKSON: Oh, my parents, we couldn’t find my parents. My sisters and brothers from California were calling me, “Where’s mom and dad?” And I was trying to contact them. And I was so worried, because we didn’t know where they were. I was calling them, and trying to call them and contact them. The next morning, I was calling the police and trying to file a missing person report. And at twelve o’clock, my parents came in. They were at the casino in Connecticut. And the casino would not let them leave, and they were stuck there and couldn’t make any phone calls and there was no phone service. It was terrible, no phone service, so nobody, and nobody knew where they were. And finally, when I’d been talking to the police station, trying to file a report, and then they just came in (to my apt).

Q: You mentioned, after 9/11, that Chinatown was very quiet. Can you describe that a little bit more?

JACKSON: There were a lot of barriers put up, a lot of stores were closed, we couldn’t get the, buy those things to cover your nose---

Q: The masks.

JACKSON: The masks, right. Supplies were sort of all gone, even buying milk and things like that. Things were really restricted. Trucks couldn’t come in because there were barriers put up all over the place. But we tried to continue our life as much as possible. Kids went to school. And I had to work from my home, because I have a land-line phone, so that’s the only phone that really worked well. And then we had to go downtown to apply for these phones. There was all kinds of information we had to bring them to apply for it. So that was a little unnerving.

Q: Was that a difficult process?

JACKSON: Yes, because there were a lot of people applying for the phones.

Q: Did they offer, did they have Chinese translators?

JACKSON: No, they didn’t.

Q: So only the people who can speak English were able to apply?

JACKSON: Yes.

Q: Do you know at that time, were there any agencies in Chinatown helping them with it?

JACKSON: Yes, I understand that later on, there was the CCBA involved, and I think the Chinatown Planning Council helped out. And then on Worth Street, that’s when they had some Chinese people. I know that some students’ alliance club, some students from the Manhattan Community College, they volunteered for the language (translation) and to help the people fill out forms, or guide them where to go. And the Lioness---we gave out blankets and supplies from our location in mid-town to help the workers.

Q: How long did the quietness last? When did you notice that Chinatown was busy again, or that Chinatown has recovered?

JACKSON: Oh, I feel, quite a while, at least, maybe a year later. People didn’t travel, people were afraid to travel. At the time, the fares were very cheap. But we did, we went to Hawaii to visit.

Q: You were not afraid?

JACKSON: No. We couldn’t believe it, usually it’s like eight hundred dollars. At that time, it was only five hundred to go to Hawaii.

Q: What was the impact on the business? I mean, you mentioned there was impact, but how drastic---

JACKSON: The business was very quiet. There was hardly any business.

Q: How did you contact the clients when you didn’t have the phone? Did the clients just come by or---?

JACKSON: Well, we had signs in front of the door with the phone number if they wanted to contact us. Because, you know, you couldn’t operate your business without the phone lines. And then the properties that I manage, we put signs, we physically go there and put signs up, and help where ever possible.

Q: Okay, let’s shift gears, and talk about you.

JACKSON: Oh, me? [laughs]

Q: How are you involved in the community?

JACKSON: Well, I was the PTA president when my children were young, from elementary school all the ways up to junior high school. That’s one. And then, I was a Lioness, started the Chinese-American Lioness Club. I didn’t know a thing about Lion, Lionism, and that’s a service organization. We do projects like, to help the senior citizen, or we give scholarships to the school. We have to do our own fundraising, by that, we have a flea market, we issue a journal, and we have meetings twice a month. So I’m involved in that.

And then I became a board member for the Chinatown Health Clinic, and that takes a lot of time, and you don’t get no pay. You just get a nice dinner when you go to the board meetings. And I’m involved in the fund raising. And then also I’m a member of the ITC, International Training Communication. It’s an organization, an educational organization that teaches you how to speak (& how to organize and do leadership things).

Q: Why did you get involved with all these organizations?

JACKSON: I feel because I live and work in Chinatown, and I like to give back to my community. I think it’s very important. I also ask my children to do that. Two of my children are attorneys, and they volunteer their services at the church, no fee. They like to do things that don’t make any money. (laughs)

Q: Tell me a little bit more about the Lioness Club. Have they been around in Chinatown for a long time?

JACKSON: Well, ours was the first one started in 1980. No, but there is the men’s, the Chinatown Lions Club is about sixty years old. It’s mostly men. They didn’t have women doing service. We were like a project of theirs. And then, when we started our club, there was the Governor Lions Club, there was the City Hall Lions Club---Lioness Club, which was all women. They spoke Chinese all the women spoke Chinese, but our club was really international. We have people from Denmark, mostly professional teachers, or business people. We have black people, we have Japanese, we have Jewish people. So ours is really sort of international. That’s why now we’re called the New York Cosmopolitan Lions. And we became Lioness in 1987, and this is our twenty-fourth year.

We have purchased medical equipment for the Chinatown Health Clinic. We bought a lot of eye equipment. And we go visit the senior citizens and we gave out donations, red envelopes, for Chinese New Year. We do things in the community, buy equipments (for daycare center and gave scholarships to the high school students).

Q: Tell me about your children.

JACKSON: Well, my second child was born in Kings Highway, Brooklyn. We had to sell the (restaurant) business because it was really hard to manage, and we have two young kids.

Q: I’m sorry. Backtrack. Which business?

JACKSON: Our restaurant business. Our restaurant was on Avenue P and Ocean Parkway. So we sold that, as I was getting ready to give birth to my second child. And then we were almost evicted. The marshal was coming in the middle of the night, so luckily we had a place to move to in Manhattan. And that’s how my husband purchased a building in Manhattan.

Q: Why were you being evicted?

JACKSON: Because when we sold the business we didn’t work, and when you have a family, and when you don’t have income coming in, it’s very easy, the money just goes very fast. So luckily my husband put a small down payment on the apartment building in Manhattan, and we moved to Manhattan.

Q: Oh, you were evicted from your apartment ----

JACKSON: In Brooklyn, yes.

Q: Not from the restaurant, because you already sold it?

JACKSON: No, because we already sold it, right.

Q: And it was on the way, moving from Brooklyn to Manhattan, that your son was born?

JACKSON: Yes.

Q: Why did you guys pick settle in Chinatown?

JACKSON: Oh, then after we were living in the East Village, and then the building department says, “You can’t live in sort of a basement apartment”, so that’s why we had to sell that property, and we moved to Chinatown. Because my husband used to have an employment agency in downtown Manhattan, and that building was going out of business, and all the employment agencies had to move, so that’s why we came here, to East Broadway and opened up the employment agency.

Q: Can I ask you how much you bought the building for, and when was this?

JACKSON: The building in Chinatown? Oh, back then in the seventies, back in the early seventies, this building only cost---believe me, it was a wreck, though---it only cost thirty five thousand dollars.

Q: How much is it worth now?

JACKSON: I think it’s worth about, at least a million. I told you, that’s the time, you know when you have a lot of children, and my husband always likes to buy these handyman specials. We really worked very hard at it because we didn’t have a lot of money to purchase buildings. I mean, we could never afford one today. The prices they’re asking like two million, one million. With thirty-five thousand dollars, we put down five thousand, and you get a mortgage for thirty thousand, which the landlord would give you, so you didn’t have to go to the bank. So it was much different back in those days. And that’s why we were able to buy this building, and pay it off (after fifteen years).

Q: Of all the buildings that you manage, do you own them, or you are helping other people to manage?

JACKSON: No. In the beginning, I manage a lot for a lot of people. I manage for a lady who was a rabbi, a rabbi’s wife. Manage for some other business people in Chinatown.

Q: Where was the rabbi’s----

JACKSON: Her building was on Avenue C and East Sixth Street. And then I managed buildings on Mott Street. I managed buildings on Jefferson Street. I managed a coal building, we had to put coal into the boiler. Those were interesting times. But you know, we really worked very hard. My mother always said, “hard work never killed anybody”, And it’s true. [laughs]

Q: Is your business spread over Manhattan now, or they concentrated in one area?

JACKSON: Most of our business? Well, I manage some properties in the Bronx, in Manhattan, East Village, some in Chinatown.

Q: Since you grew up in Brooklyn, but you raised your children in Chinatown, what was the difference, or similarity?

JACKSON: Being and living in Chinatown, I always wanted my children to know other people’s culture. Inside PS 2, there was Spanish children, black, Jewish children, and other American children. I always taught them to stay with the nice kids, and try to understand other people’s culture so that they would be more versatile, and they would not feel the discrimination that I had felt when I was young, right? I really know what it feels like to be discriminated against. And so my children, they were able to make friends with other nationalities. And we invited the people to our home, and had dinner. They didn’t speak Chinese, even though I had a Chinese teacher for them. They had no interest in learning Chinese, they would fall asleep. And my daughter, we sent her to the Chinese school for kindergarten, she went for one year, and then she lost interest. So they always spoke English. But now, a lot of Chinese (in Chinatown) don’t speak English. So it’s really difficult. It’s really different.

Q: Do you feel easy living in Chinatown, or outside Chinatown?

JACKSON: Now? Or then?

Q: Then, or now.

JACKSON: Well, I really had to get used to Chinatown myself too because I never lived in Chinatown before. My kids, they had to memorize certain dishes that they liked. They had to memorize the dishes in order to order the food. We had one incident where my son was shot in the head with a bb-gun, when he was only fourteen years old. He was coming back to the office to close up, and my husband and I were taking courses at Murry Bergtraum High School. I didn’t know he was shot in the head until I came home and I saw his face was like off to one side, and then I knew something was wrong, so I rushed him over to Bellevue. And he was sick for almost a year. We had wanted to give a reward (to find out) who shot this bb-gun. The police, they never found out who did it. And so some people said, “Maybe you should leave Chinatown, because of this incident”. And I said, “Well, why should I leave Chinatown? We live and work here. No matter where you go, you might---we never expected this to happen”. But luckily, he pulled through, and the bullet was taken out of his brain. It was almost inside the brain. It was really thin skin. All the churches for praying for him, and luckily faith was keeping us going, and so he survived, thank God.

Q: So do you feel Chinatown was safe or unsafe back then?

JACKSON: Well, back then there was a lot of gangs. My daughter experienced. They didn’t like the way she walked, and some gang member was trying to beat her up on East Broadway. Luckily she was passing her church on East Broadway, and somebody was looking out the window and came down to help them. And I was so upset. I was so upset that these gangs can attack young children, that I called the police. And then another incident, they mistook my sons (for gang members). My sons were going to buy ice cream, and the gang members pushed him into a hallway, and wanted to beat them up in the hallway, but luckily my son is smart, he called to his brother, and his brother came to help him. And then they realized it was the wrong person they had. So my children were never involved in gangs because we always tried to teach them---they have to know what’s right and what’s wrong, the most important thing. I wanted them to be good citizens. They didn’t have to be brilliant, but they had to be human and be good citizens. That’s all I asked. And to be a good student. And that’s their job. I used to explain to them, “That’s your job, being a good student. And mommy and daddy is supporting and paying the bills.” We had those three incidents when they were young, and I was very upset, but I still wouldn’t leave Chinatown.

Q: When was that?

JACKSON: It was back in the seventies. And the gangs came, and even then they tried to come to (to the store). You know, I don’t believe in giving the gangs anything, not a penny. I never paid anybody a penny. Because I figured, “Gangs, if they were doing something good for the community instead of just trying to get money. I wouldn’t mind contributing for the community.” I used to tell my neighbors, “You don’t have to give these gangs anything.” When I was the PTA president, one of the students’ parents had a restaurant on Division Street. And he said the gangs would come into the restaurant and order---a bunch of them, a whole table---order food, get up and don’t pay for it. And so we mentioned that to the principal, and the principal called the undercover people. Next time they came, next day they came again, and sat around and ordered a lot of food. They got up and was leaving, and the other table was all police officers, and they all got arrested.

So it was a proof that you don’t have to pay these gangs. Because those parents, they really worked very hard. Why should we pay these gang members?

Q: Did they bother you or your business?

JACKSON: One time, they tried to---I was in court--and they tried to throw all the customers out, saying, “Do you want your life, do you want your life? You’d better leave.” And then they tried to knock the TV down. But meanwhile, we had all these cameras. So when I came back, the help (staff) was frighten you know, of course I wanted them to be protected. The gang members told them not to come back to work tomorrow, that they’re going to do something to the place. So I said to my help---as I came back later, in the afternoon--- and I said “What, are they making a movie or something?” I mean, I said, “I can’t believe this is happening. Are they making a joke?”

And so my husband and I went to the police and the next day all the undercover people, some were outside in the car, and some in my back room. When they (gangs) came in again, I told them “I’m not giving you anything. What do you want to do about it?” This was said in Chinese. They started to get up. And meanwhile, I had a bullet-proof vest on, just in case. Those bullet-proof vests are so hot. And the police wanted me to give them marked money, but I didn’t. Because I never give any of these bad guys anything, because I don’t believe it---I feel it’s a principle. And so I didn’t give them anything, and the police were a little annoyed at me because I didn’t give them the marked money. But when they started to go out, they sort of threatened, and the police heard it. They had the videotape from the day before because we gave them the videotape, we had to go down to the police headquarters. Then the police arrested them because they found out that they had killed somebody in Massachusetts. And this one guy was arrested. Then later on, he wanted to apologize. He had another person, like an intermediate, to apologize to us. So it made the newspapers and people were wondering, “are you okay?” And that was the end, that was the end of that.

Then sometimes a few years later, some people, they come in, a young lady and a young girl, and they’re bringing a plant. So I thought it was from a friend. So I said, “Who’s this from?” And they said, “This is from the street.” And once they said “from the street,” I said, “No, I can’t accept it.” And I did speak to them in English, so the girl says, “Oh, let’s get out of here.”

Q: So they were intimidated----

JACKSON: They wanted----

Q: ---by the fact that you speak English.

JACKSON: Yes, and then my other neighbors, they said, “Oh, because you speak English, that’s why they don’t bother you so much, because they only speak Chinese.” So I said, “But this is America, you don’t have to be intimidated by them. You have to stand up for your rights.”

Q: Then why do you think other people, give in to protection monies and all this stuff?

JACKSON: Because they’re afraid. They don’t, they’re afraid.

Q: Because of the language? Or the culture?

JACKSON: The language and the culture. They don’t want trouble so they give them money. I never give anybody a penny. I’m terrible. Because it’s the principle of it. I mean, if somebody, if my friend was sick and something, I would of course lend them, give them money for food or something. But I don’t believe in supporting these gangsters. So back in the ‘70s there was really a lot of gangsters around, but now I think it’s less, or I think it’s much less. At least, they don’t come around to my place. I don’t know about the others, because as I said, I’m handicapped---I don’t read Chinese newspapers. Maybe that way it’s good in a way, because I would be crazy. (laughs)

Q: Tell me how different Chinatown is now, compared to the ‘70s.

JACKSON: The ‘70s? Okay, the ‘70s were less people. Now, ever since the immigration law was passed in ’65, more Chinese have come to America, more immigrants. So now there are a lot of new immigrants, and they’re mostly from Fukzhao. And the Cantonese people sort of moved to New Jersey, Queens. That’s why there are three Chinatowns now. There used to only be one, which was Manhattan. But the one in Queens is mostly people from Taiwan. And now in Manhattan Chinatown, it’s hard to find a good Cantonese restaurant these days, because we’re so used to our Cantonese cooking. There’s a lot of Fukzhao type of food. Their food tastes a little different. And they speak their own dialect, and if you don’t understand it, it’s a little difficult. They speak also broken Mandarin.

Q: Do you feel disconnected from them?

JACKSON: Sometimes. Because I don’t understand what they’re saying.

Q: Is there any way to improve the communication between them? Between them and you?

JACKSON: Well, if they speak English or they speak a little Cantonese. I try to understand. But my secretary understands Mandarin, so she speaks to them in Mandarin, and then the other girls who work outside speak Fukanese, so I have to ask them to translate.

Q: I want to ask you, do you see any way Chinatown should be improved? Do you think Chinatown is sufficient in handing all these new immigrants from Fujian area?

JACKSON: In terms of service and space, well, not really, because I don’t think we have enough of housing for the new immigrants. And lot of them, they’re overcrowded, their apartments are overcrowded and illegal. Some of them, they like to break the law. There’s one instance where they rent an apartment and they’re using it for prostitution. Which is very bad. And I didn’t know until the police called me and said they were watching the building.

Q: Was this one of the buildings you managed?

JACKSON: Man---yes.

Q: And where is this located?

JACKSON: Over here on Rutgers Street. I mean, I couldn’t believe it, I checked their reference and everything but they’re still doing sort of illegal business. And so, I had to call an attorney, I had to deal with the D.A.’s office, and finally they left. But then they go to another place, and starts this prostitution business (again), which is not very good. They have their own laws, like they don’t want to listen to what the rules are here. You tell them it’s overcrowded and it’s illegal, but they still rent the apartments. I understand there’s some apartments where they pay for eight hours day time and eight hours night time.

Q: You say housing---

JACKSON: ---And the housing, of course the sanitation, they block the streets with their wares, and you can hardly walk. Chinatown should be clean and it should be just as clean as uptown, but it’s not, and that’s because we don’t have any political clout. And that’s what we need more, the young people to come out to vote, because if we don’t vote, we don’t get the services that we really desperately need.

Q: Besides the political clout, what else can Chinatown do to help improve the quality of living?

JACKSON: The quality of living? Besides the sanitation, the schools. I understand from some educators, that because the parents work or they work out of town--- the new immigrants --- that the grandparents take care of the kids, and that the kids don’t listen to the grandparents. I understand they’re kind of wild in the elementary school. So I always believe that all kids should get a good education, and sometimes because the parents are not involved, they just go sort of haywire.

When I was PTA president, I used to always said to the parents, I said, “If you want your child to do well in school, you’ll have to be involved, and check his work, or if you have a problem, you go right to the teacher, or the principal.”

Q: Why do the parents go out of town? Is there not enough jobs in Chinatown?

JACKSON: I guess there’s not enough jobs. They go all over, they work in Chicago, or out of state, and they just leave the kids with the grandparents.

Q: What kind of job do they do outside of the city?

JACKSON: I think mostly it’s the restaurant, or sewing factories. Service business.

Q: Do you think Chinatown can have more industry, create more industry, or more jobs?

JACKSON: We lost a lot of the sewing factories. We used to have about five hundred, and now I think it’s only a handful. There are a lot of factories have gone, and so that makes the economy in Chinatown bad Because the women used to work in sewing factory, and then they would go to the restaurants for lunch, or for tea, and so that’s lost. That’s why a lot of people are unemployed.

Q: Since your husband’s in the employment business, do you guys see any new business growing in Chinatown that will replace the garment or the restaurant?

JACKSON: I don’t think so. No.

Q: Do you have any more to say about this interview? About yourself, or Chinatown, or anything?

JACKSON: [Laughs] Well, I want to thank you for interviewing me. I hope my story or my information is helpful to other people.

Q: Thank you very much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

<p> 問：我是Teri Chan，我在這裏採訪Jeanne Jackson，地點是東百老彙126號，唐人街，紐約。你能講一下你的全名嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：好的。我叫Jeanne Lee Jackson。</p>
<p>問：我想問你一個不尋常的問題。你爲什么姓傑克遜？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲我丈夫，他是上海人。他來美國的時候成爲了一名美國公民，他因此非常高興，所以他把Jackson Lee調換了一下就變成了Lee Jackson。他們問他想不想改名，因爲在六十年代入籍問話是一個一個問的，而不是像現在一組一組問。</p>
<p>問：他有沒有申請過改名？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有，他經常開玩笑地講，“我的曾祖父是Andrew Jackson。”[笑] 但在我們剛剛結婚的時候，商店裏的人以爲我丈夫是美國人，或者是黑人。中國人沒有姓傑克遜的。[笑] 別人也拿我的孩子開玩笑，說他們是Jackson Five，或Jackson Six。</p>
<p>問：你的孩子有沒有想要改名？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有。</p>
<p>問：他們喜歡這個名字。</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。<br>

問：你和你丈夫是怎樣認識的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們是通過報紙認識的。[笑]</p>
<p>問：講---</p>
<p>傑克遜：我曾經參加過Ging Hawk俱樂部，這是一個亞洲婦女俱樂部。有一次我們在中央公園滑冰，拾到一份唐人街的地方報紙，上面說有“免費中文課。”因爲我是在美國出生的華人，我總是想學中文。於是，我們就跟那裏聯繫，我和他就是這樣認識的。他在那裏教課。</p>
<p>問：什麽---</p>
<p>傑克遜：---我是他的學生。</p>
<p>問：這是什麽時候的事情？</p>
<p>傑克遜：1960年。</p>
<p>問：好的，讓我們再談一下在此之前的事。你是什麽時候在哪里出生的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我於1940年2月在紐約曼哈頓出生。</p>
<p>問：你是在哪里長大的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我在布魯克林區Green Point長大。我母親開了一家洗衣店，我在PS 34上的小學，在126中上的初中，後來在Long Island City上的高中。</p>

<p> 問：在Fort Greene長大的情形如何？</p>
<p>傑克遜：Green Point。</p>
<p>問：是Green Point，對不起。</p>
<p>傑克遜：那時差不多是二戰末期，我是那所小學裏唯一的亞裔學生，受到了很多歧視。而且，我有點兒淘氣。老師經常護著我。但其他學生總是辱駡我，並給我取各種各樣的外號。我總是想反抗，因爲我很自豪自己是美籍華人。我想因爲戰爭，二戰，人們對亞洲人的看法有些改變。</p>
<p>問：你是怎樣反抗的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：在上初中的時候，他們總是想放學後和我打架。因爲我非常非常勇敢，我總是向他們挑戰。我說，好吧，我們打架，我們放學後要在某個地方打，一群孩子會過來看。</p>
<p>問：是男孩還是女孩，或者---</p>
<p>傑克遜：男孩女孩都有。</p>
<p>問：不同種族的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：多半是波蘭人。波蘭人和愛爾蘭人。</p>
<p>問：在上高中之後是不是還經常有這樣的事情？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：上高中之後就沒有了。上了高中就好了一些，因爲我去的是Long Island City高中。我在那裏不太受歧視，因爲我是1957年畢業的。我只上了三年，54年到57年在高中。我在高中的時候很開心。我大多時候與一些亞裔學生在一起---那裏亞裔學生也不多，有三、四個。我們經常打保齡球，籃球。</p>
<p>問：你和唐人街的小孩有沒有來往？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有，因爲我們住在Green Point，在布魯克林區，你要坐G車，大約需要45分鐘。</p>
<p>問：你有沒有去你父母的洗衣店幫他們？</p>
<p>傑克遜：有，我不得不幫。每天早上，我父母要給髒衣服上漿並把衣服裝到袋子裏。我要整理上漿的地方，然後我母親要用手搓領子，我要把髒衣服放到袋子裏等濕洗公司過來取。做洗衣服這一行最開心的時候是把洗好的衣服交給顧客並收錢。然後我對自己講，“我希望我不會嫁給一個做洗衣店生意的。這份工作太辛苦了。”</p>
<p>問：你開始幫你父母的時候有多大？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想我大概是十歲或十一歲。</p>
<p>問：你一共幫了多長時間？</p>
<p>傑克遜：幾年。</p>
<p>問：你父母是從哪里來的？他們是在這裏出生的嗎？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：不是的。我母親出生在麻塞諸塞州，但我父親是從中國廣州來的。</p>
<p>問：我們先談一下你父親那一邊。</p>
<p>傑克遜：好的。</p>
<p>問：他是什麽時候來美國的？現在他家裏人是不是都在這裏，還是---</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想我父親是二十多歲的時候來這裏的。他是個紙兒子，他要花錢買文件到這邊來。來了之後，他就開始打工。他總是說他花了三千美元。他借了三千美元來美國，來了之後就要還帳。後來，他又回到中國，我想他是想回去討老婆。他很幸運，因爲有人把我母親介紹給了他。我母親很小的時候就回到中國去了，因爲她母親死了，我祖母和她的父親把三個孩子全送回到中國。他們就是這樣認識的。我母親跟我父親結婚時只有十五歲。</p>
<p>問：他們是什麽時候又回到美國的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：1936年。當時，中國已經在跟日本打仗。很幸運，我母親是美國公民，她能再回到美國。而其他很多人都不能把他們的妻子帶過來。</p>
<p>問：她回來的時候，這裏男人和女人的比例是多少？</p>
<p>傑克遜：男的比女的多。實際上，我母親說她花了三年的時間才知道怎麽去唐人街。我們以前住在42街三大道，而她用了三年的時間才知道怎麽去唐人街，而我父親卻擔心別人把她搶走，因爲當時亞裔女孩子非常少。</p>

<p> 問：你父母講中文還是英文？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我父母講中文。但在我出生的時候，我母親得了肺結核，被送到療養院，而我被送到孤兒院。在上州療養院那裏，她學了英文。我父親很辛苦，因爲他要去看我母親，又要去孤兒院看我。</p>
<p>問：你在孤兒院待了多長時間，你當時有多大？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我很小。我想我也許只有幾個月大。我在孤兒院一直待到我教母---她經常領養一些小孩，就這樣成了我的教母。她住在布魯克林。</p>
<p>問：她是中國人嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，是中國人。她收養了很多小孩，他們的父母要不是生病，要不就是抛棄了他們。</p>
<p>問：你還記不記得和她住一起的事情？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我當時的確很小，但我總是非常愛我的教母。她對我們一直都非常好，比我的親生父母都好。[笑] 我教父在曼哈頓的Nassau街開了一家餐館，我記得他有一部福特T型汽車，我和他一起去Essex街買菜。</p>
<p>問：最後你母親康復了？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：是的，然後我又和我父母住在一起了。</p>
<p>問：你有兄弟姐妹嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我有一個哥哥，兩個妹妹。我哥哥是醫生，精神科醫生，我的兩個妹妹一個教書，另外一個在加利福尼亞的一家超級商場工作。</p>
<p>問：你有孩子嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：有，四個，一個女兒，三個兒子。我現在有十四個孫子女。</p>
<p>問：你有沒有跟你的孩子講過你的經歷，家裏的事情？</p>
<p>傑克遜：有，因爲我們小時候家裏非常窮。因爲我父母要養活三個家庭，他們要資助我父親在中國的家人，我母親要資助她父親，還要照顧我們。因此，我們沒有玩具或其他東西。能有飯吃我們已經覺得很幸運了。即使你小的時候家裏窮，你仍然能夠過活。我們父母爲了我們而拼命工作，我們的確非常愛他們。他們爲了我們四個孩子做了很多犧牲。</p>
<p>問：讓我們講一下你大學畢業後的事情。在結婚之前你做什麽？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我在曼哈頓大通銀行工作。我在那裏做了六年，從他們的學校那裏畢業之後，我就做了業務主管，然後遇到了我丈夫。我們認識三個月之後就結婚了。[笑] 我們經常在布魯克林市區Junior’s約會，那時我丈夫做印刷。他有自己的印刷生意，後來我們開了一家外賣店（餐館）。<br>

我對中餐館一竅不通。因此，我不得不學每一件事，怎樣做雲吞，怎樣做排骨。我們在布魯克林開了一家小餐館（外賣店）。因爲我們那時只有四百美元，在61年，我們很幸運，自己做了所有的事。我們做了一個大冰櫃，還有鋪地板，刷漿。那些廚師給了我們一些錢，說，“你以後再還給我們。”</p>
<p>我們就這樣開了自己的小外賣店。我女兒是那時出生的，我們店前有一個嬰兒圍欄。有一些小孩經常過來和她一起玩。我們經常賣炒麵，一杯二十五分，午餐排骨和炒飯，五十分，在一家初中學校附近，Hudde Junior High School，在Nostrand大道和J大道交口處。</p>
<p>問：你那家餐館開了多久？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們做了大約三年的外賣，然後又在P大道開了一家餐館。我當時要生第二個孩子，所以不得不停止做餐館生意，因爲很難找到人照看孩子。於是，我們又開始做曼哈頓房地産生意。</p>
<p>問：請講一下房地産生意。</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們在東二街買了第一棟樓，一個二十四家庭的公寓樓。我們從來沒有雇過管理員。我必須要自己學怎樣做管理員，看門人。我經常要提一桶水爬五層樓梯，清洗走廊。除了照顧我的孩子以外，我就做這些，料理那棟樓。我還要負責地下室的備用鍋爐。所有這些都是我一邊做一邊學的。的確是很好的經驗。</p>

<p> 問：你那個時候住在哪里？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們從布魯克林搬到曼哈頓東二街。</p>
<p>問：你們那時的生活方式是典型中國家庭的生活方式，還是說很不傳統？</p>
<p>傑克遜：典型中國家庭？因爲我是在這裏出生的，我想我更現代一些。我的孩子去了Headstart。我志願參加Headstart和小學的服務，我給那些新移民的家長做翻譯。除了照看自己的孩子以外，我做了很多義務工作。也沒有別人幫我，因爲我父母還在工作。</p>
<p>問：你能夠與那些新移民交流嗎？你是否感到和那些人在文化上有牽連？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想他們總認爲因爲我是在這裏出生的---，他們總是說，“你是chuhsane，你是在美國出生的。”這有一點不同。我尊重他們想要做的事情，我想他們也尊重我。這有一點不太一樣。</p>
<p>問：區別是什么，你和他們之間有什麽共同之處---</p>
<p>傑克遜：那些從中國來的？首先是語言。語言是個大問題，然後是對孩子的教育。他們非常護著孩子。而我經常讓我的孩子去Fresh Air Camp，他們很難理解我讓六、七歲的孩子去外面宿營兩個星期。因爲我想讓我的孩子獨立，並且學習其他文化，玩的開心。因爲我們住在城市裏，我們從來沒有錢度假，因爲我們總是在工作。</p>
<p>問：你們是否用不同的方式來教育孩子？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：我演好人，而我丈夫演壞人。感謝上帝。我想這是爲什麽每個孩子都需要一個母親和一個父親，因爲一個人很難---我認爲是很難。如果沒有他們的父親，我真不知道該怎麽辦。</p>
<p>問：我想再倒退一點。作爲一個女人，我對你在大通銀行工作的經驗很感興趣。是不是在那裏工作的亞裔人很少，或者亞裔婦女很少，那裏的情況怎麽樣？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。曼哈頓是大通銀行的總部，主要的辦公樓，儲備部門。這麽大的辦公樓裏只有三個亞洲人。我負責五個打散工的，我很喜歡我的工作，監督。但我剛開始的時候做打字員，非常無聊。後來，我學會了抽煙。但我經常加班，因爲我父母很古板，我一直沒有時間談戀愛，不是工作就是上學，工作，學校。我想，你如果想要有所成就，你必須要有所付出。</p>
<p>問：別人是不是認爲你是典型的亞洲婦女？你覺得你很典型嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：不是的。我想他們尊重我。我的教父總是說，“既然你是亞洲人，而且亞洲人又這麽少，你總是要做得更好，讓人家知道你很負責任，非常盡責，做好自己的工作，這樣別人會看到的。你必須這樣做，因爲我們希望其他亞洲人來了之後也能找到工作。”</p>
<p>問：再讓我們談一下你的房地産生意。你是不是還有些地産，多少---</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，在我孩子還小的時候，我有上學，我首先做了一名銷售人員，然後是房地産經紀人，我也有學保險。我的辦公室從1973年以來都在這裏。辦公室也是我自己蓋的。這裏沒有牆，沒有地板，<br>

完全是個垃圾堆。這個區域被廢棄了，但是逐漸地，從73年開始，生意變得非常好，至少是南佛羅里達的地産，在Lehigh。我們做管理和出租（住宅和商業）。</p>
<p>問：你都有哪些顧客？</p>
<p>傑克遜：誰---</p>
<p>問：你的顧客有哪些，他們的背景怎樣？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲我的辦公室在---，什麽人都有，有黑人，猶太人，一些中國人。這就是爲什麽我喜歡那個地方，因爲很多元化。我遇到很多人，他們到那裏做公證，保險。那個區域有很多流動人口。</p>
<p>問：是不是有一些老顧客，還是說你現在有更多的中國客戶，因爲唐人街已經擴張了？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲有很多流動人口，我們有很多老顧客。但是因爲現在有很多競爭，越來越多的人在唐人街開自己的生意。比如現在，因爲東百老彙是一個小福州，因爲人們都講那個地方的方言，而我不講他們的方言，這是我的劣勢。房地産和保險業有很多競爭。但至少我們還能維持自己的生意，我們在這裏已經有很長時間了，從1973年開始。</p>
<p>問：你是怎樣應付這些競爭的？你有新的經營方式嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們儘量提供最好的服務，我也有做報稅。如果他們有問題，我都會盡力幫助他們的，我們不多收他們的錢，就這些方面。我們的服務跟其他人有所不同。<br>

因爲我們是做服務業的，每個人做生意的方式都不同。但是，如果只是爲了生存，任何人都能做這一行，但關鍵是要一直做下去。很多人都在做生意，然後轉天，或者第二年他們就不見了。但我們還在，因此我們做得應該還算不錯。</p>
<p>問：你提到他們講另外一種方言，福州話，而你顯然不會講---</p>
<p>傑克遜：我講臺山話。但我丈夫很幸運，他講三種方言。他講上海話，國語，廣州話，還有一些英文。</p>
<p>問：那你們是怎樣克服語言障礙爲新客戶提供服務的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我的秘書講國語，而我丈夫的職業介紹所裏有人講福州話。</p>
<p>問：跟我講一下你丈夫的職業介紹所。</p>
<p>傑克遜：職業介紹所裏有很多不同的部門。他雇了大約三十個女孩子。他主要做餐館，任何和餐館有關的，他把人介紹到全國各地，從波多黎各，到水牛城，麻塞諸塞，芝加哥。他現在是唐人街最老的職業介紹所之一。現在這裏又開了很多新的介紹所，很多年以前，和他競爭的只有三家，現在大約有五十家。很多人在他這裏幹，然後又離開開了他們自己的職業介紹所。</p>
<p>現在，工作不好找，因爲9/11和經濟不景氣。</p>
<p>問：能不能跟我講一下9/11對你和你丈夫的生意有什麽影響嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：在那之後一個半月裏我們這裏都沒有電話，這很麻煩，因爲我們必須要把招牌打出去，這樣我們只好用手機。<br>

Verizon給了我們手機，我們買了大約三十部手機。但生意很少，在開始幾天裏，唐人街像是一座鬼城。周圍都沒有人，我們還能聞到煙味，因爲我們離那裏僅有大約十二個路口。這確實對唐人街有嚴重的影響，很多人失去了工作，很多地方都關閉了。</p>
<p>問：你們有沒有得到9/11救濟計劃的援助？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有。我們想申請，我們正準備申請，但看到需要做很多文件，他們的確問了很多問題。因此我們就沒有申請，因爲要辦很多繁雜的手續。</p>
<p>問：你們有沒有幫助你們的客戶申請，既然你們有做報稅和保險？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我的客戶---他們想自己申請，當他們來做報稅的時候，他們沒有意識到他們得到的救濟金還要交稅。我有一個客戶因爲在唐人街的生意和在布魯克林的房子得到了救濟金，但在報稅的時候，她才知道她要交一萬八千塊稅。</p>
<p>問：有一些負面影響？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。我想很多人都知道這些。我遇到其他一些人，他們說他們不想讓政府去他們家裏看有沒有買空調，或空氣清潔器。他們就是不想受別人打擾。</p>
<p>問：簡單地講，這對你和你的客戶不是非常有效。</p>
<p>傑克遜：救濟金？</p>

<p> 問：是的。</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想一些人確實需要這些救濟金，很多人失業了，因此我想應該會有一些幫助。我們得到一些救濟金，簽了兩年的租約，六千塊救濟金---我住在孔子大廈，其中一部分是要交稅的。因此，這有些幫助。任何事都會有幫助的。</p>
<p>問：你是怎樣知道9/11救濟金的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：說實話，我不知道。有一次開會，有人---我在開一個會，有人提起這些救濟金，說你可以在中美銀行登記。因爲我不看中文報紙，從那個渠道瞭解不到，我甚至根本不知道，後來我去問別人，我就是這樣得到LMCD救濟金的。</p>
<p>問：你沒有在英文主流報紙上看到救濟金的消息嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我有看英文報紙，但是上面沒有太多關於那些救濟金的資訊。然後我聽到其他一些有意思的事情，所以我沒有太注意。</p>
<p>問：9/11那天你在哪里？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我在孔子大廈社區室工作。那是很重要的一天。我記得非常清楚，那個房間裏沒有電視，沒有無線廣播。我從早晨5:30開始都在那裏工作，等到我想大概是10:30的時候，有人進來說世貿中心沒有了。他們很沮喪，有的人在尖叫，於是我們就出去看，看到那裏在冒煙，黑煙。大家都很震驚，然後他們說我們可以11:30關門。那時，孔子大廈要疏散兩棟樓裏的人。</p>

<p> 問：爲什么？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲有傳聞說他們接下來要轟炸孔子大廈。我們不知道，但那是傳聞。所以，大家都被疏散了，管理員挨家敲門，讓裏面的人出去，所有的人都在下面站著。</p>
<p>問：孔子大廈在什么地方？</p>
<p>傑克遜：孔子大廈在Bowery街，位於Division街和曼哈頓橋之間。</p>
<p>問：你們被疏散到哪里？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲這些騷動，我已經很疲勞了，我是早晨5:30起的床，所以我呆在我的公寓裏睡覺。[笑]</p>
<p>問：那個時候你家在哪里？</p>
<p>傑克遜：啊，我父母，我們找不到我父母。我在加利福尼亞的哥哥和妹妹打電話給我，“爸爸媽媽在哪里？”我想和他們聯繫。我很擔心，因爲我們不知道他們在哪里。我給他們打電話，想聯繫他們。第二天早晨，我打電話給警察，想報告有人失蹤。在十二點的時候，我父母回來了。他們去了康涅狄格的娛樂場。娛樂場的人不讓他們走，他們被困在那裏，不能打電話，因爲沒有電話服務。當時很可怕，電話不通，沒人知道他們在哪里。最後，當我在警察局報告有人失蹤的時候，他們剛好回了家。</p>

<p> 問：你提到在9/11之後唐人街很安靜。你能再講得具體一些嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：這裏有很多路障，很多商店都關了門，我們買不到蓋在你鼻子上的那個---</p>
<p>問：面具。</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，面具。這些儲備都沒有了，甚至牛奶之類的東西。購物受到限制。卡車開不進來，因爲到處都有路障。但我們還是盡力繼續正常的生活。孩子們去上學。我不得不在家裏工作，因爲我有一部地線電話，是唯一一部正常運作的電話。然後我們必須要去下城申請這些電話。在申請文件上，我們必須提供很多資訊。這搞得我很疲憊。</p>
<p>問：申請很麻煩嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，因爲有很多人申請電話。</p>
<p>問：他們那裏有中文翻譯嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有，那裏沒有。</p>
<p>問：那只有能講英文的人才能申請？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。</p>
<p>問：那時候你是否知道唐人街有什麽機構可以幫助他們申請？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我後來才知道，CCBA有介入，<br>

我想唐人街計劃理事會（Chinatown Planning Council）也幫了忙。還有在Worth街上有一些中國人。我知道那是一些學生聯盟組織，曼哈頓社區學院的一些學生，他們義務做翻譯幫助人們填表格，或跟他們講怎麽走。還有母獅---，我們在中城那裏發放毛毯和一些補給。</p>
<p>問：這樣的寂靜持續了多久？你是什麽時候注意到唐人街又繁忙起來的，或是說唐人街又恢復正常了？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想是隔了一段時間，至少，也許一年之後。人們不旅行，人們怕旅行。那時的車票很便宜。但我們有出去玩，我們去了夏威夷。</p>
<p>問：你不害怕嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：不是不害怕。我們是不相信，通常票價是八百美元。那個時候，去夏威夷只需要五百塊。</p>
<p>問：對商業有什麽影響？我是說，你提到有影響，但有多麽嚴重---</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有什麽生意。幾乎沒有什麽生意。</p>
<p>問：那時你沒有電話是怎樣跟客戶聯繫的？只是那些客戶過來還是---？</p>
<p>傑克遜：如果他們想要跟我們聯繫，我們門前招牌上有電話號碼。因爲，你知道，沒有電話你做不了生意。我們也在我管理的樓房那裏擺放了招牌，我們是親自到那裏立起招牌的，盡可能地幫助別人。</p>

<p> 問：讓我們換個話題，請談一下你自己。</p>
<p>傑克遜：我？[笑]</p>
<p>問：你的社區活動多不多？</p>
<p>傑克遜：在我孩子還小的時候，從他們上小學一直到初中，我都是PTA主席。這是其一。還有，我是一個母獅成員，創建了美籍華人母獅俱樂部。我當時不瞭解獅子，那是一個服務機構。我們舉辦像幫助老年人之類的活動，或者在學校設立獎學金。我們必須要自己籌款，爲此，我們辦了一個跳蚤市場，出了一本期刊，每個月開兩次會。這些我都有參與。</p>
<p>後來，我成爲唐人街健康診所委員會的成員，這佔用了我很多時間，沒有薪水的。只是你去開董事會會議時能夠吃上一頓好飯。我也參與了籌款。而且，我還是ITC的成員，國際交流培訓（International Traning Communication）。這是一個教育組織，教你怎樣講話，以及怎樣組織和領導。</p>
<p>問：你爲什么參與這些組織？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我覺得因爲我在唐人街生活工作，我想爲社區做些回報。我想這十分重要。而且我也要求我的孩子這樣做。我有兩個孩子是律師，他們義務去教堂服務，不收費。他們喜歡做一些沒有報酬的事情。[笑]</p>
<p>問：再跟我講一下那個母獅俱樂部。他們在唐人街有很長時間嗎？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：我們是第一家，從1980年開始。不對，還有一個男性組織，唐人街獅子俱樂部成立有六十多年了。大多數都是男人，他們不招女的。我們跟他們的組織類似。我們剛剛創立俱樂部的時候，有州長獅子俱樂部，有一個市政府獅子俱樂部---母獅俱樂部成員全部是婦女。他們講中文，所有的婦女會員都講中文，但我們的俱樂部是國際性的。我們有從丹麥來的會員，多半是職業教師，或商業界人士。我們有黑人，有日本人，有猶太人。所以，我們的確是國際性的。這就是爲什麽別人稱我們是紐約國際獅子。我們于1987年成爲母獅協會，今年我們已經是第二十四年了。</p>
<p>我們爲唐人街健康診所購置了醫療設備。我們買了很多眼科的設備。我們慰問老年人，發放捐款，過春節的時候派利是。我們爲社區做了很多事情，爲託兒所購買設備，發獎學金給高中學生。</p>
<p>問：請談一下你的孩子。</p>
<p>傑克遜：我第二個孩子出生在布魯克林區Kings Highway。我們不得不賣掉餐館生意，因爲很難料理，我們當時有兩個小孩。</p>
<p>問：很抱歉。請稍等一下。是什麽生意？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們的餐館生意。我們的餐館在P大道和Ocean Parkway上。我們把它賣掉了，因爲我要生第二個孩子。我們幾乎是被轟出來的。執法人員半夜來了，幸好我們在曼哈頓有地方住。就這樣，我丈夫才在曼哈頓買了一棟樓。</p>
<p>問：他們爲什么要轟你走？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：因爲我們賣餐館的時候沒有工作，當你有了家庭又沒有收入的時候，錢花得很快。幸好，我丈夫付了一小筆定金，在曼哈頓買下了一棟公寓樓，然後我們就搬到了曼哈頓。</p>
<p>問：別人把你從公寓裏轟走了---</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，在布魯克林。</p>
<p>問：不是餐館，因爲餐館已經賣掉了？</p>
<p>傑克遜：不是，餐館已經賣掉了，是的。</p>
<p>問：你兒子是在路上，從布魯克林到曼哈頓搬家的路上，出生的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。</p>
<p>問：你們爲什么選擇住在唐人街？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們在East Village住了一段時間之後，建築部門說，“你們不能在地下室住”，就是這樣我們不得不賣掉那個地産，然後就搬到唐人街。因爲我丈夫以前在曼哈頓下城開了一家職業介紹所，那棟樓的樓主很快就要倒閉了，所有的職業介紹所不得不搬走，這樣我們就搬到東百老彙這裏，開了這家職業介紹所。</p>
<p>問：我能問一下你花了多少錢買下那棟樓的？那是什麽時候？</p>
<p>傑克遜：唐人街的那棟樓？那是七十年代，七十年代初，這棟樓只賣---相信我，那時這裏一團糟---只花了三萬五千美元。</p>

<p> 問：現在值多少錢？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想至少值一百萬。這是在那個時期，我家裏有很多孩子，我丈夫總是喜歡買那些便宜貨。我們的確工作非常努力，因爲我們沒有多少錢買房子。我是說，我們今天都買不起。他們現在出價兩百萬，一百萬。當時是三萬五千美元，我們下了五千塊定金，抵押貸款貸了三萬，這錢房東會借給你，因此你不必去找銀行。因此，那個時候和現在很不一樣。就是這樣我們才能買下這棟樓，十五年之後才還清。</p>
<p>問：你管理的那些樓是你自己的地産，還是幫別人管理？</p>
<p>傑克遜：沒有。起初，我幫很多人管理了很多地方。我幫一個牧師的太太管理，還有幫唐人街的一些生意人。</p>
<p>問：那個牧師的---</p>
<p>傑克遜：她的樓在C大道和東六街交口處。我還有管理Mott街上的樓。我有管理過Jefferson街上的樓。我還管理過一棟煤樓，我們要把煤放到鍋爐裏。那是個有趣的年代。但你知道，我們確實工作得很辛苦。我母親總是說，“辛勤工作不會死人的。”的確如此。[笑]</p>
<p>問：你現在的生意是不是分佈在曼哈頓各地，還是說集中在某一個區域？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我們大多數的生意？我管理的物業有的在布朗士區，有的在曼哈頓，East Village，一些在唐人街。</p>

<p> 問：你在布魯克林長大，但你是在唐人街把你的孩子帶大的，這兩個地方有什麽不同和相同之處？</p>
<p>傑克遜：搬到唐人街之後，我一直想讓我的孩子瞭解別人的文化。PS 2有西班牙人的孩子，黑人和猶太人的孩子，還有其他美國人的孩子。我總是讓他們和好孩子呆在一起，想讓他們瞭解別人的文化，使自己更加多元化，這樣他們不會受到我小時候受到的歧視。我非常瞭解被歧視的感受。我的孩子能夠和其他國家的人交朋友。我們有時請別人到我家來吃飯。我的孩子不會講中文，儘管我有給他們請中文教師。他們沒有興趣學，學的時候總是打瞌睡。我們把女兒送到中文幼稚園，她去了一年，然後就不感興趣了。所以，他們一直是講英文。但現在，唐人街很多中國人都不講英文。所以，現在不講中文的確很不方便。現在的確不一樣了。</p>
<p>問：你覺得在唐人街生活舒服，還是在外面生活舒服？</p>
<p>傑克遜：現在？還是那個時候？</p>
<p>問：當時，或者現在。</p>
<p>傑克遜：我自己必須要習慣唐人街，因爲我以前沒有在唐人街住過。我的孩子必須要記住他們喜歡的菜。他們必須要記住菜名好點菜。有一次，我兒子頭上中了一槍BB-Gun，當時他只有十四歲。當時他回辦公室關門，而我和我丈夫在Murry Bergtraum高中上課。我不知道他頭上被打了，直到我回家看到他一半臉都腫了，我馬上就意識到不對勁兒，於是我急忙把他送到Bellevue。他病了差不多有一年。我們曾想要懸賞<br>

找到是開槍的人。警察從未找到是誰幹的。於是，一些人說，“因爲這件事，也許你們應該離開唐人街。”我說，“爲什么我要離開唐人街？我們在這裏生活和工作。無論你去到哪里，你總會---我們從未想過這樣的事會發生。”但很幸運，他恢復了健康，子彈也從他的腦袋裏取出來了。差不多打到腦子裏。的確是很薄的一層皮。全教會的人都在爲他祈禱，很幸運我們一直有信心，他終於渡過了難關，感謝上帝。</p>
<p>問：你認爲唐人街那時安不安全？</p>
<p>傑克遜：那時有許多黑幫。我女兒經歷過。他們不喜歡她走路的方式，一些黑幫的人想在東百老彙打她。還好，她正好走在東百老彙她去的教堂的外面，裏面有人看到，下來幫她。我很不高興。我不高興是因爲這些黑幫的人居然欺負小孩子，我於是叫了警察。還有一次，他們誤以爲我兒子是黑幫成員。我兒子出去買冰激淩，那些黑幫的人把他推到一個過道裏想要打他，還好我兒子很聰明，他叫自己的兄弟，他兄弟就過去幫他。然後他們才知道他們認錯人了。所以，我的孩子從來沒有參與黑幫，因爲我們總是叫他們---他們必須要知道什么是對，什么是錯，這是最重要的事情。我想讓他們成爲好公民。他們不必非常出色，但他們必須要有人性，是好公民。我就這麽一個要求。同時要做個好學生。那是他們的職責。我經常跟他們解釋，“做一名好學生是你的職責。爸爸媽媽會支援你們，出錢供你們讀書的。”在他們很小的時候，我們出了這三件事，我很生氣，但我仍不想離開唐人街。</p>
<p>問：那是什麽時候的事情？</p>
<p>傑克遜：那是七十年代的事。那些黑幫的人過來，甚至那個時候，他們都想來店裏。我從來不想給黑幫什麽東西，<br>

一分錢也不想給。我從來沒有給過一分錢。因爲我想，“如果那些黑幫想爲社區做些有益的事，而不只是拿錢，我不介意爲社區做些貢獻。”我經常跟我的鄰居講，“你用不著給這些黑幫任何東西。”我在任PTA主席的時候，有個學生的家長在Division街開了一家餐館。他說那些黑幫進了他的餐館點了---他們有一大群，一桌人---菜，吃完就走了，沒有付錢。於是，我們就反映給校長，校長就叫了一些便衣。他們下一次去---，第二天他們又來了，坐在一起點了很多菜。他們吃完要走，坐在旁邊的都是警察，他們都被抓了起來。</p>
<p>這就證明你不必給這些黑幫任何東西。因爲那些家長確實很努力工作。爲什么我們要付錢給這些黑幫？</p>
<p>問：他們有沒有打擾你或你的生意？</p>
<p>傑克遜：有一次，他們想---我當時在法院---他們想把所有的客戶都轟走，說，“你們要不要命？要不要命？你們最好走開。”然後，他們想砸電視。但我們安了監視器。我回來的時候看到那些員工都嚇呆了，我當然希望他們能夠受到保護。那些黑幫的人不讓他們明天回來上班，他們想再回來搗亂。我對自己講---我下午回來了---我說，“他們在拍電影嗎？”我是說，我想，“我不相信這是真的。他們是不是在開玩笑？”</p>
<p>於是，我和我丈夫去到警察局。第二天，來了很多便衣，一些呆在外面的汽車裏，一些在辦公室。當黑幫進來的時候，我跟他們說，“我不會給你們任何東西。你要怎麽樣？”我是用中文講的。他們開始站了起來。同時，我穿了防彈衣，以防萬一。穿上防彈衣後我很熱。警察要我給他們做記號的錢，但我沒有給他們。因爲我從不給這些壞傢夥任何東西，<br>

因爲我不相這些---這是原則問題。所以，我什麽也沒有給他們，警察也有些惱火，因爲我沒有把做標記的錢給他們。但當他們離開的時候，他們威脅了一下，警察也聽到了。他們有前一天的錄影，因爲我們把錄影帶給了他們，我們必須要去警察局總部。後來，警察逮捕了他們，因爲警察查明他們在麻塞諸塞殺了人。有一個被逮捕的人後來又想道歉。他讓另外一個人，差不多是個中間人，過來向我們道歉。那些報社和其他的人都在納悶，“你沒事吧？”就這樣，以後就再也沒有事了。</p>
<p>幾年之後，有一次，一位年輕的女士和一個小女孩走進來，送了一盆植物。我以爲是一個朋友送的。於是我問，“這是誰送的？”她們說，“是街上的人送的。”她們一說“是街上的人送的，”我說，“不，這個我不能收。”我是用英文跟她們講的，那個女孩子說，“我們走吧。”</p>
<p>問：他們怕了。</p>
<p>傑克遜：他們想---</p>
<p>問：因爲你講英文---</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的，後來我的鄰居說，“因爲你講英文，所以他們不太打攪你，因爲他們只講中文。”那我就說，“但這裏是美國，你不必被他們嚇著。你必須要爭取自己的權利。”</p>
<p>問：那你認爲爲什么其他人要屈服，給他們保護費？</p>
<p>傑克遜：因爲他們害怕。他們害怕。</p>

<p> 問：因爲語言，還是文化？</p>
<p>傑克遜：語言和文化都有。他們不想惹麻煩，於是就給他們錢。我沒有給過他們一分錢。我很難對付，因爲這是原則問題。我是說，如果有人，如果我的朋友病了或發生其他的意外，我當然會借給他們，給他們錢或者食物。但是，我不會資助這些黑幫。在70年代，這裏的確有很多黑幫，但我想現在很少了，至少我是這樣感覺的。至少他們不再到我的地方來了。別人我不知道，因爲正如我所講，我有劣勢---我不會看中文報紙。也許這是好事，否則我會發瘋的。[笑]</p>
<p>問：請跟我講一下現在的唐人街同70年代相比有什麽不同。</p>
<p>傑克遜：70年代？70年代的時候這裏人很少。自從65年頒佈了那個移民法以來，有更多的中國人來到美國，有更多的移民。因此，現在有更多的新移民，他們大多來自福州。廣東人差不多都搬到新澤西和皇后區去了。所以現在有三個唐人街。以前只有曼哈頓一個。但皇后區主要是臺灣人。現在在曼哈頓唐人街，你很難找到好的廣州餐館，因爲我們吃粵菜已經習慣了。現在有很多福州菜。他們的菜有一些不同。而且，他們講自己的方言，如果你聽不懂，可能會是個問題。他們也講不太流利的國語。</p>
<p>問：你覺得和他們不太親近嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：有時。因爲我聽不懂他們在講什麽。</p>
<p>問：有沒有什麽辦法增進你們之間的交流？在你和他們之間？</p>
<p>傑克遜：如果他們講一點英文或廣州話，<br>

我會努力聽。但我的秘書講國語，因此她跟他們講國語，其他在外面工作的女孩講福州話，所以我要讓他們給我做翻譯。</p>
<p>問：我想問你，你認爲唐人街在什麽地方還需要改進？你認爲唐人街是否有能力容納這些福州人？</p>
<p>傑克遜：在服務和空間方面不行，因爲我認爲我們沒有足夠的住房供給新移民居住。很多住房都很擁擠，他們的房子太擠了，而且這樣住是不合法的。他們有一些做違法的事情。有些人租了一所公寓用來做妓院，這很不好。我一直都不知道，直到警察給我打電話，說他們在監視那棟樓。</p>
<p>問：這是你管理的樓嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：是的。</p>
<p>問：是在什麽地方？</p>
<p>傑克遜：在Rutgers街。我是說，我簡直不敢相信，我查了他們的材料，但他們還是做了一些違法的事情。因此，我只好請了一個律師，來應付檢控官，後來他們搬走了。他們搬到另外一個地方，並且重操舊業，這樣很不好。他們有自己的想法，他們不想遵守這裏的規定。你跟他們講這裏過分擁擠和不合法，但他們仍然租。我知道有些地方他們有的白天租八個小時，有的晚上租八個小時。</p>
<p>問：你是說住房---</p>

<p> 傑克遜：---住房，當然還有衛生，他們的東西都放在過道上，給行人帶來很多不便。唐人街應該是乾淨的，應該和上城一樣乾淨，但現在不是，這是因爲我們沒有任何政治勢力。而這就是我們還需要努力的，希望那些年輕人能夠站出來投票，因爲如果我們不投票，我們就得不到我們需要的服務。</p>
<p>問：除了政治影響之外，唐人街還能做些什么來提高人們的生活質量？</p>
<p>傑克遜：生活質量？除了衛生教育以外，我從一些教育家那裏知道，因爲一些家長工作很忙，或者在外州工作---那些新移民---，由祖父母照看孩子，而這些孩子不聽祖父母的話。我聽說他們在小學學校裏很瘋。我總是認爲所有的孩子應該得到良好的教育，有時因爲父母沒有配合好，他們就經常搗亂。</p>
<p>我在任PTA主席的時候，我總是跟家長們講，我說，“如果你想讓你的孩子在學校學習好，你必須要管他們，檢查他的作業。如果你有問題，就要直接找教師，或者校長。”</p>
<p>問：爲什么父母要到外地去？在唐人街找不到工作嗎？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想是沒有太多的工作。他們到處走，有的在芝加哥工作，或在外州，他們就把孩子交給祖父母。</p>
<p>問：他們在外地做什么工作？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我想多半是餐館，或是衣廠，服務業。</p>
<p>問：你認爲唐人街會有更多的産業嗎？創建更多的産業，或更多的工作？</p>

<p> 傑克遜：我們失去了很多衣廠。我們曾有五百多家，而現在我想只有零星幾個。很多衣廠都倒閉了，造成唐人街經濟不景氣，因爲在衣廠工作的女工會去餐館吃午餐，或喝茶，所以這些都是損失。正是因爲這個，很多人都失業了。</p>
<p>問：既然你丈夫搞職業介紹，你們是否認爲唐人街會有什麽新興産業來取代制衣或餐飲業？</p>
<p>傑克遜：我不這么認爲。沒有。</p>
<p>問：你還有什麽要補充的嗎？關於你自己，或唐人街等的？</p>
<p>傑克遜：[笑] 我想感謝你採訪我。我希望我的故事或資訊會對其他人有幫助。</p>
<p>問：非常感謝你。</p>
<p>傑克遜：謝謝。</p>
<p>[採訪完畢]</p>