William Chiu

William Chiu

transcription

interview

William Chiu

Florence Ng

2004-03-30

Cantonese

business man

Q: Mr. Chiu, could you please describe your life in Hong Kong before you immigrated to the United States?

Chiu: Actually, I spent even less time in Hong Kong than in America, just19 years. My memory dates back to when I was six years old. I vaguely remember that we moved from Kowloon Tong to Central District and lived on D'Aguilar Street, on the second floor, above some bar. I just recently went back and saw the place, so that’s how I know. I used to be a wild kid. My parents worked in the business of “home banquet.” Back then, there weren’t any cars on D'Aguilar Street, so we kids would go roughhouse in lots of places around there, playing “soldiers chasing thieves.”

Q: When was that?

Chiu: That was when I was six, around 1958. We moved to Central and lived on D'Aguilar Street for two years because the previous landlord forced us to move out. Two years later, we moved to Wo On Lane which was on the opposite side of D’Aguilar Street and still in the Lan Kwai Fong neighbourhood. Two years later, we moved to Wing Wah Lane. We lived there until 1963. My father was sick and had two strokes, so my mother wouldn’t let him work. They sold the business to their employees and friends. My father later accepted an offer to work as a chef in Japan at Liu Yuen [Restaurant] where he taught the Japanese how to cook. That was a lot easier. He only had to work eight hours a day instead of working constantly.

Q: How busy had your family business been?

Chiu: As far as I remember, during our busiest periods, we had 22 workers, four to five chefs, and catered several places a night.

Q: Was the home banquet business popular back then?

Chiu: Actually, there were not that many experts in that field. Some of them ran their own restaurants or worked in the restaurant business. People from Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces liked to entertain their guests at home and have chefs come cook the meal. First of all, the atmosphere was a lot more cozy. Second, it was more convenient for them to chat with their friends and fellow businessmen at home. Usually, the homes were huge. Some of them had an entire floor, and some had a whole building in places like Kowloon Tong, Happy Valley and Mid-Levels. At his peak, my father was extremely busy every day, working from very early to very late.

Q: Mr. Chiu, why did you come to the United States?

Chiu: That’s a long story. My mother later told us that my father came to Hong Kong from Shanghai in 1950, while my mother came to Hong Kong in 1951. I was born in Hong Kong in 1952. In 1948, my father had come to Fuzhou city and married my mother. I have an older sister who was born in Shanghai in 1949. My father didn’t understand business at the time that he moved from Shanghai to Hong Kong. He had heard people say that he could make money selling towels, and so he spent all his savings on buying towels. But when he came to Hong Kong, nobody would buy them and he lost a lot of money. A lot of people from Shanghai went to Hong Kong for business. One of these men, who worked as a lawyer for the Xu family, asked my father, “Why don’t you come to my house and work as a chef?” So my father worked there, and the Xu family taught him a lot of dishes. They were wonderful. Mrs. Xu constantly taught my father how to cook Shanghai dishes. When Mrs. Xu went to Shanghai-style restaurants, she would ask the chef how he made the dishes, and when she returned, she’d teach my father how to do it. So my father can cook Shanghai dishes really well. After Mr. Xu immigrated to the United States, he missed my father and asked, “Master Chef, what can I do for you? Would you like to come to America?” My father said yes. My father had previously registered as a refugee and applied for immigration at a Catholic church, but there was no response. Mr. Xu said: “When I get there, I will find a way to apply for you.” But we heard nothing, all the way until I was a teenager, so we thought we didn’t have any opportunity to immigrate. Even my father brought it up, saying, “If Mr. Xu was there and had applied for us to go over to the U.S., I wouldn’t need to pay so much tuition and I wouldn’t need to work so hard. If you want to study abroad, go to Taiwan.”

Maybe fate arranged it. Before he died, Mr. Xu’s said that his last wish was that his promise to help Chef Chiu immigrate be fulfilled. Mr. Xu had a daughter, Mrs. Lee, the owner of the Lee Travel Agency. Mr. and Mrs. Lee enthusiastically searched everywhere for my father, but couldn’t find him. One time, leading a tour to Japan, they came across my father in Liu Yuen, where he worked as a chef. Mr. Lee asked my father, “Chef Chiu, do you want to come to the United States?” My father said yes. When Mr. and Mrs. Lee returned to the United States, they requested Mr. Yip of Zhi Mei Lou Restaurant to apply for us to go to America using the sixth preference. In less than three months, while my father was still in Japan, the application was approved. My father returned to Hong Kong and applied for our family. We have nine people in our family. My sister was in Denmark at that time and was not included. That was around August and we had six months to get the visa. You can see we had no idea of what United States was like, so why did we still want to come? That is a long story.

Hong Kong was annexed to Britain because of the Opium war. I didn’t know that before, I only cared about eating and sleeping, and my parents had to force me to study. I still remember that during the peak of my family business, servants would send me to school and take me home while I studied at Raymondi College.

In secondary school, the curriculum stopped when it got to modern [Chinese] history such as the anti-Qing dynasty movement and the Republic of China. After that, no more history was taught. That was in Form 4 [equivalent to Grade 10 in US educational system]. I was confused about modern history. Why was Taiwan protected by the U.S. government? Taiwan was recognised by the U.S. government and protected by it. Why was China called Shina? Some called Chiang Kai-shek Chiang Fei [robber Chiang]. Or Mao Zedong Mao Zei [thief Mao]? Why were things that way? The purpose of studying is to gain knowledge, so how can it be shameful to ask? Questioning is the key to acquire knowledge. I asked the teacher, “What are Chiang Fei and Mao Zei?” Who knew that I would create a huge scene? The teacher I had come across had followed Chiang Kai-shek in the army. Screaming “Do you want to live?” he came at me and grabbed my waist. Pointing at my head, he yelled, “You dare call President Chiang Chiang Fei? I’ll cut your head off!” I responded by saying that I only asked because I didn’t know, and that I could only know things by asking. “You still want to argue?” the teacher said. I was punished for my behavior. Without any reason, I was punished. From that day onwards, I started doing research, since the teacher would not explain things to me. If it’s OK to say Mao Zei , why not Chiang Fei? That was the beginning of my quest for political knowledge, because I had been wrongly punished and that was too upsetting.

From that day onwards, this teacher of Chinese literature and history deliberately gave me a hard time, so I studied extra hard and thoroughly learned the texts of Chinese literature and history. Later, when I no longer needed to study modern history, I relaxed, since I didn’t have to study it every day any more.

You know why Lin Zexu burned the opium in Humen? Why the Chinese were defeated by the British because of their anti-opium drug efforts in Humen? Why that would make Hong Kong become the colony of the British government? I hated the Japanese who invaded our country. I hated the British who smuggled opium into China and victimized the Chinese. I was also puzzled at why the swath of land making up China and Taiwan were divided up into left and right. I thought it didn’t make sense and was unreasonable. I was biased against the British government. If the British had not victimized Chinese, China wouldn’t be so easily defeated. So that was where I got my sense of warlike indignation.

I learned kung fu before. I think I already told her that I lived on D’Aguilar Street when I was young. My kung fu master used to do business on D’Agilar Street and lived in the building across from us. I was a wild kid and I was playing once on the stone staircases, which were wet and thick with moss. I was pretending to be a thief, and someone was chasing me, and I stepped on the slippery moss and slid. “Thump!” I had cracked open my head. The scar is still here. I was about eight. My kung fu master was across the street, and he stopped the bleeding and cured me. In 1964 we moved to Graham Street. The master also moved to the opposite side of the street from us. You could say it was fate. I started to learn the Cai Lifo school of martial art from my master Lee Pak-ling (also known as Lee Pak), who is the third generation of Cai Lifo.

Q: Is it because you didn’t like the British government, so you turned to the American government?

Chiu: Yes. Since the British government was a colonial government and took Hong Kong like that and suppressed the Hong Kong people. Especially within the government departments, where the government officials were bullying others. I thought, what kind of world was that?

Besides, in school, I learnt that the United States was huge, but had no idea how big it was. I had only thought of studying in Taiwan because studying in America was too expensive. But apart from Chinese literature and history- the only two subjects that were taught in Chinese- no other subjects were taught in Chinese in Hong Kong. I had no clue [what the other subjects were if they were taught ] in Chinese.

I wanted to be a doctor and study at Taiwan National University. At that time, only Taiwan was being recognized as China. The biology and chemistry tests were done in Chinese. It might be okay if the tests were carried out in English. But when it came to Chinese, I did not even understand what the questions meant. So I failed the Taiwan University admission tests.

Since my Chinese skills weren’t so good, and I couldn’t be a doctor, I decided to become a merchant. I wanted to really do it and work my way up from the bottom. I passed only three to four subjects in my high school graduation examination and did not pass the basic requirement of passing five subjects.

My god-mother worked for an American businessman whose name was Gibson and originally resided in Chicago. He referred me to his business partner Mr. Kent P. Koo. As soon as he met me, Mr. Koo said, “All right, come and work for us!” I worked as a low ranking junior in the Tak Sing International Export & Import Co. Ltd. Tak Sing International Export & Import Company is an exporter to the United States and Canada, specialised in wool sweaters and exports to Britain, United States, Canada and Australia. My god-mother’s boss, Mr. Gibson, was an American importer from Chicago. With her referral, one of the heads not only accepted me but luckily gave me a special favour. He said, “You may look at the files, you can look at anything you want.” Actually, that was not allowed. How come? Office hours started at 9am. I was there at 7:30am. I studied the files one by one. If I was free, I practiced typing. I re-typed some of the files. Some of the staff members were not happy about this. There were over 30 employees. Some directors saw me and told me, “Do you know these files are confidential and you are not supposed to look at them?” I answered, “The boss asked me to read them.” The director then said, “If the boss said so, let it be.”

Quickly, within six months, I mastered the concept of the trade. My boss was very nice to me. He taught me how to negotiate a business, how to get a sample, how to get payment, how to charge, how to get a letter of credit, how to write a confirmation, how to sell your contract to the bank, etc. After the six-month period, I was promoted three grades upward, but my pay remained the same. Besides typing, I checked the goods and worked on confirmation, etc. I worked in every sector.

Other juniors ran errands, but I worked as a representative. Others lined up and were yelled at by the colonial officials at government offices, but I would fight back. I disliked the way the colonial officials bullied others. Even though the people obediently lined up, they were still being scolded. I stood up and said, “Let me see your supervisor. There’s a problem with your attitude.” They were scared and let me go first. Hence, I could finish my assignments a lot quicker than other people. I always looked for their supervisors since I was representing Tak Sing International Export & Import Company. When other employees went out and carried a bag, I asked my company to buy me a briefcase. The accountant said, “Who do you think you are to buy a briefcase?” I said, “I represent the authority of Tak Sing company. I can’t do it without a briefcase.” He was dumbfounded and bought it for me. I used to wash the dishes and my hands became coarse, so I asked the company to get me some lotion. The accountant said, “Why do you want to buy lotion? Nobody is as fussy as you are.” I said, “If I hurt my hand from washing mugs, would the company compensate me for that?” Probably because of my good relationship with the boss, they didn’t refuse.

If I was determined to do it, I could finish eight to nine assignments in a day, even though I’d end up in a sweat. Therefore, my boss always praised me, saying “Well done!” and gave me tips to buy food. I was only 17 or 18 years old back then.

I worked at Tak Sing company for a year before I came to the United States. I studied accounting at night. Why? I thought accounting was indispensable. I could not work unless I understood accounting. Since I studied accounting before, I would test the accountants in my company, as they might not be certified accountants, and I had already started learning it in Hong Kong.

Q: Please talk about the moment you learned you would be coming to the United States. How did you feel?

Chiu: I was very happy when I learned I would come to the United States. My boss was working on business in North and South America, so I worked on business opportunities in Africa. I didn’t want to learn my boss’ business and steal it from him. I wanted to embark on a new path. It’s easy to do business in America, and he had large orders, but profits were small. My region on the other hand had smaller orders and bigger profits. Just when I was about to propose to my boss that we explore that region, my immigrant application was approved. I had to say goodbye to my boss and worked until December of that year. My boss was very understanding. He told me that he was a soldier in the United States during World War II. Later on, he went from the United States to Hong Kong and stayed here to do business.

When I came to America, plane tickets were very expensive. I wanted to do business, and so I had to search and ask all over to find the cheapest rates. Now, if I was doing a travel agency, I would be able to get the cheapest fare. I suggested this to the Lee Travel Agency and they agreed and helped us get the lowest fare. Why? Our benefactor was Mrs. Lee, or put it this way, Mr. Xu, Mrs. Lee’s father. If not for his words, we would still be in Hong Kong. I will never forget Mrs Lee’s good deeds to me and I will always remember Mrs. Lee and the Xus who offered us great help.

The Chinese lived a repressed life under the British rule. Even if we were British, we were considered second class citizens. They could distinguish you and say that you still needed a visa to go to Britain. That’s ridiculous. They recognized you as British subjects but not as British citizens. Their attitude was to discriminate against all British subjects. Only those in Britain were British. I thought that was undemocratic. Besides, I thought Britain was a country of thieves. Why? Her prosperity was built on selling opium. They invaded other countries for profit and stole the land from the Chinese. In school, Britain was called the land where the sun never set, and it seemed so glorious. When I learned that Britain invaded China because Lin Zexu, the governor of Guangdong and Guangxi provinces, had destroyed their opium, I hated the British even more.

The British youth in Hong Kong really liked to harass Chinese youth. They walked with a swagger. When they passed by a Chinese youth, they’d elbow him hard. You were supposed to be scared. They wanted to make you avoid them. They were that way to everybody. I had the exact opposite reaction. If they hit me, I elbowed them back. They were in too much pain to say anything. I would say [sarcastically,] “Oh, I’m in so much pain! You really hurt me!” They didn’t dare say anything.

There was one British teenager who would hit Chinese in their stomach when they passed. When he passed by me, I knew he was about to hit me, so I punched him. He was in so much pain that he couldn’t speak. A lot of similar incidents made me think that opposite outcomes would result when things were being pushed so far.

During the 1966 fascist riot [in Hong Kong], there were a lot of fights. People in school were divided into leftists and rightists and I didn’t have a very clear idea what was going on. Some of them said, “We should sing Dong Fang Hong [Red Sun Rises in the East] in unison and fight against the British government.” Considering the conciliatory policy of the Hong Kong government, and the way that Chinese were suppressed, I disliked Hong Kong even more. I did not want to be a colonial subject. If I had to be a colonial subject, I would rather be an American colonial subject.

When we emigrated to the United States, we were thrilled. We bought our air tickets to the United States from the Japan Airlines. My father worked in Tokyo for eight years and made so many friends in Japan that his Japanese friends flew all the way from Japan to Hong Kong to visit my father. I also learned Japanese for three months but I never used the language. I had already thought that the airport in Tokyo was big, and I was astounded at John F. Kennedy Airport. It was as big as a world, with an impressive ambiance and a view that seemed to go forever. Others were jetlagged but not me. I was full of energy within the first three days after I arrived. That was in 1971, the first time I saw it snow.

I worked at Zhi Mei Lou as a waiter trainee. Zhi Mei Lou was located at where Subway Deli is now- at the intersection of East Broadway, Bowery and Doyer Street. The second or third store, south of Doyers Street and next to a mall, where Subway Deli is now was the location of Zhi Mei Lou restaurant. That was the restaurant which applied for my father. You can say we were a very lucky family.

Q: Was it very difficult to apply to the United States back then?

Chiu: If you didn’t have the right qualifications, your application wouldn’t be accepted. Why do you think so many people snuck off ships [into the United States] and so many overseas Chinese students over-stay and won’t leave? The American immigration policies were lenient, so then these people ended up staying. Most of the community leaders [in Chinatown] came here illegally on boats or over-stayed in the country while foreign students and never went back to China. Very few were legal immigrants. Very few of them were born here, especially the Fujianese. I remember there used to be only one Fujianese association with a rather paltry membership, only a few hundred people. Nowadays, in the tri-state area, we have, by a conservative estimate, 500,000 to 600,000 Fujianese people.

Q: You mentioned that your father applied for refugee status to the United Status through the church in Hong Kong. What happened then?

Chiu: The refugee application was like a boulder that fell into the sea, with absolutely no response. When we emigrated we had to report this in the application. Otherwise, I would not even know, because I was so small then.

Q: Was applying for a refugee visa hard?

Chiu: To put it frankly, unless you’ve got special skills and a sponsor, don’t even think about it.

The Chinatown of 1971 was vastly different from the current one. The amount of business in Mott Street was nothing compared to the current Chinatown. There were only two or three streets then. I came in 1971 and worked in Zhi Mei Lou Restaurant and as a waiter trainee. I was not given any salary and I had to pay for my round trip subway fare. At the time, the fare had just increased to 50 cents. Now it’s two dollars. I used to get up early. Back in Hong Kong, there was no such thing as being late for work, although things are different now. I used to get up at 4 a.m. and got there at 6 a.m..

Q: Where do you live now?

Chiu: I live at Setauket near Stony Brook on Long Island. It takes an hour and fifteen minutes to commute here if the traffic is good, but if there’s a traffic jam, it could take up to 4 ½ hours.

Q: Did you live in Chinatown back then?

Chiu: Back then, I lived in the Bronx because I had to learn to be a waiter trainee in Chinatown. My father’s friend got us an apartment in the Bronx next to his home, and I paid a dollar for subway fare each day to work. These people told me ahead of time, “We’re not going to pay you. You can have breakfast, lunch and dinner [with us], and we’ll teach you how to set and clean tables. If you learn fast, we’ll teach you how to take orders.” I trained at the Zhi Mei Lou Restaurant for a month. After a week, an elderly waiter told me, “Boy, I don’t care what others think. If you do a good job and give me a hand, I’ll give you a dollar a day so that you don’t lose money taking the subway.” So I earned twenty-one dollars that month from this waiter. He’s still in Chinatown now. When the month was over, they said, “You’ve earned enough and don’t need to come anymore.” Mr. Chiang asked me, “Do you want to be a substitute worker? I can let you work three days a week. Do you want to do it?” I said yes.

At that time, the Chinatown waiters had bad attitudes. Bowls were thrown on the tables, where they’d clatter loudly, and they wouldn’t refill tea for the customers. I had only worked there for one month, but I thought that behaviour was wrong. I set the table quickly. I cleaned up fast. I refilled the water fast. In one word, I was perfect. I’ll tell you something funny. I was a substitute and an unskilled fresh worker, who earned very little money and needed help from others. They didn’t want to share tips with me. They would just send me to the inside of the restaurant [which they seldom filled with customers], left me to work on my own, and sent over the “iron customers” who gave no tips.

One of these “iron customers” was astonished at how I treated him and asked, “Why do you serve me so well? You’re so polite, you greet me, give me water and take away used dishes.” I replied, “You’re my customer here and since I represent the restaurant, shouldn’t I treat you nicely?” He was surprised and asked, “Don’t you know I’m not going to give you any tip?” I said, “That’s not important. You’re the customer, so I want you to be satisfied. If you’re satisfied, that’s enough.” Unexpectedly, he gave me a 20% tip when he checked out. The other waiters said, “Boy, we’ll share tips with you.” This is the way the world works. People will bully you if you’re new, but if you turn out to be useful, they’ll want to be your friend. But I left after three months. I believe they would have given me a permanent job if I wanted. But I chose to leave, since, first of all, I had to study. Secondly, I thought it was a waste to earn several dozens dollars each day. Fujianese people worked hard. We could work three shifts a day - eight hours a shift- without sleep. They worked until they died and remitted the money back home [in China]. Their ability to work was extreme. However, if I worked for Chinese bosses, I could not work two shifts.

I had originally intended to study, but I ended up not doing it. I went into a college and asked about the tuition and credit. They said I had to study 12 credits. I asked how much was a credit. They said two hundred dollars a credit. I asked how many credits did I need to study in a day. They said three credits. I cried: “Woah! How can I get that much money for tuition?” So, instead, I asked my younger brothers and sisters to study in high schools since it was free, and after one year residency in New York, you could study at NY colleges at their local resident rate, which was a lot cheaper. My father earned only six hundred dollars a month. I told him, “I will make money for you and we’ll pay off the debt first, until our financial situation improves.” My father agreed because it was too hard to sustain a family with only his [monthly] salary of six hundred dollars. My family needed three hundred dollars a month for living expenses and more to repay debt. We owed a lot to Mrs. Lee; most of the debt was for the air tickets. If I had to work two shifts to earn enough money, I could not work as a waiter in Chinatown. I wouldn’t earn enough money that way. So whatever places other people recommended to me, I went there and tried my luck.

The first restaurant I turned to was Reuben Restaurant, a first class restaurant at the time, which was famous for its cheese cakes and Reuben sandwiches. I went in there to enquire about job vacancy. The supervisor said, “Sorry, Sorry, we don’t have any vacancies for waiters.”

I asked, “How about busboy? Busboy. I would be very good at that too.”

He said, “If you’re willing to be a busboy, then we can use you. We need some busboys.”

I said, “Okay, then I’ll work as a busboy, and when you have an opening for a waiter, give it to me.”

The caption said okay. Actually, he didn’t know my abilities, and was not serious. He was a Hispanic captain.

It’s not just the Chinese that have pride. Non-Chinese are the same way. Hispanics, Blacks, Italians are all the same way. In each case, they’ll bully others. I thought, first of all, since I was a new worker, I should give way to others. If they crossed the limit and started bullying me, then I’d resist. I almost got in a fight with a Puerto Rican. Why? As a bus-boy, each person had his own station [with silverware]. Sometimes he’d take my stuff to use, saying, “Let me borrow it.”

I said, “No problem. We’re friends. We’ll work together, right?”

But when I ran out, and had to borrow silverware, he said, “Don’t touch my stuff!”

“That’s fine too. Let’s not fight about it. But next time, don’t borrow my things either.” I learned fast.

Next time, I didn’t let him borrow my stuff, and he said, “What did you say?” and punched me in the stomach.

I knew I should give way to them and not fight, so I said, “Fine. Don’t punch me again.”

He said, “What are you going to do if I punch you?”

I said, “This is your last chance. Don’t touch me again.” He punched me again, a total of three times. I fought back using the Cai Lifo punching style, and knocked him to the floor. He said, “I’m sorry, Mr. Chiu.” He didn’t bully me anymore.

Wasn’t that humiliating for him? Chinese should be willing to give way, but we can’t be too submissive. Three times is enough.

Q: Were you the only Chinese who worked in the restaurant?

Chiu: There were two Chinese, no, three Chinese workers. One was older, another one was about my age. I was the youngest, because I was only 19. They were timid and let people bully them. I wouldn’t allow that. I wanted the same rights, and I would fight for the Chinese people. I would not be silent and I wanted to fight against injustice.

Besides the other guy, there was one other employee who said I couldn’t handle him, and who wanted to fight. He tried to attack me, but I didn’t give in. Each time he came at me, I escaped him, and no matter how he came after me, he couldn’t catch me. I fought back in such a way that I immobilized him. He said, “Come on, let me fight.”

I immediately shouted for the captain. I said, “He started things. If he wants to fight, I don’t mind. But you have to be the witness. If he gets killed, it’s not my problem.” He tried to grab me, and I slipped past, but he was able to tear my clothes apart. He knew martial arts, but I was not scared. If I had to fight, I would beat him until he couldn’t stand, but I wanted a witness. The captain slapped him [in the face] and said, “Fighting during work hours! You want me to kill you?” He put an end to our battle, and this guy didn’t dare touch me again. In fact, he didn’t dare touch any of the three Chinese workers.

I have another interesting story. An Italian waiter always stuck out his finger while working. I asked, “How come you act so feminine? How come your pinkie always points out?”

He said, “It’s ‘cause I hurt myself. The doctor said it’s stuck like this permanently.”

I thought, “Why is this foreigner so ignorant? This is only a joint problem. I learned Chinese bone setting before, when I learned martial arts. This joint problem could be fixed, and I was confident that he could fully recover. I asked him whether he was afraid of pain.

He said, “I don’t feel pain.”

I said, “This time it’s going to hurt, but if you can take it, I can fix this for you.”

He said, “Don’t joke around. If you really can fix it, I’ll call you Dr. Chiu.”

I said, “Are you sure you’re not afraid of pain?”

He said, “No, I’m fine.”

I put my best effort into it. I said, “Give me your hands.” If you know how to fix joints and you are not afraid of pain, it can be cured.

Q: Is this Chinese bone setting?

Chiu: I said, “Give me your hands. Give them to me and don’t try to fight.”

He relaxed and let me do it. I turned and rubbed his pinkie several times and then I twisted it. He said, “Oh! Dr. Chiu, Dr. Chiu!”

After that, whenever he saw me, he called me Dr. Chiu. What his doctor thought was incurable was actually easy to fix. Pull it straight and apart, and put it back in its old position. I told him to hold it whenever he was free until it was completely healed. I helped people in small matters and caused them to respect me. There’s no problems, and the person will remember you forever.

I have some other funny stories. We shouldn’t let others discriminate against us. Some people always say, “People always discriminate against me.” I say, “Don’t discriminate against yourself, and then nobody will discriminate against you. This is America.”

Once, I was in the subway train, and an old white man was sitting next to me. I had always respected the elderly. But he said, “You dirty Chink! Don’t sit next to me.”

I said, “Who the hell do you think you are? You dirty pig!” I slammed against him with my butt. He was too shocked to move. I said, “Don’t try to discriminate against anybody. Everyone is equal.”

In America, I didn’t feel like I was a victim of discrimination. I learned to fight back. If you say something in a joking manner, I will do the same. If you can’t take it, that is discrimination, and I’ll give you more trouble for it. Hence, I gained a lot of respect from others, especially when someone thought he was superior. There’s no such thing as that. America is a democratic country, and I want the democratic ideal to be fulfilled.

Q: After working at Reuben, what else did you do?

Chiu: My father needed someone to help him to establish a restaurant in the suburbs. He asked me to come help him. My father had worked in Japan for eight years, ever since I was 11 years old, and I hadn’t had many chances to be with him. So I said I’d do it because I wanted to be with my dad. I had earned $300 a week at Reuben, and I only made $200 per month working for his boss. Even with tips, it was only $1000 a month, but I still agreed to do it. Because workers in Reuben were too messy, and also because the boss was Italian and thought he was better than everybody else, the restaurant was eventually closed down by the health department… It’s really too bad.

Q: How long did you work at Reuben?

Chiu: I worked there for about six months. I remember that when they had open positions for waiters, I asked for the job, but they didn’t give it to me. They gave the positions to their own people. They hadn’t kept their promise. So when my father asked me to work out of state with him, I went.

My father and I intended to open a restaurant in the United States. He would monitor the kitchen and I the dining area. We had bought a lot of decorations for the restaurant in Hong Kong. We put them into fourteen wooden cartons and shipped them to the United States. I knew the shipping company. They packed and shipped them free of charge because I worked for Tak Sing Company, and they treated me courteously. Picking the items up in the United States was fairly easy. I had been an importer in Hong Kong, so why couldn’t I do it in the United States? I asked around, cleared customs and had the goods delivered to my home by a Chinatown moving company.

My father and I helped somebody open a restaurant in Port Washington, starting from scratch. I taught them management skills and how to set up menus. My father taught the owner how to be a cook. I taught the boss’s son to be a manager. After they finished learning, my father went to Massachusetts and helped others open another restaurant. My father earned a monthly salary of $800 in Port Washington and also $800 in Massachusetts. I lowered my earning from $1500 in New York to $1000 over there. I was willing to earn less since I wanted to be with my father, to strengthen our relationship and also to take care of him. Later on, my father went to Boston alone because they only needed one cook. I went back to New York and saw that Reuben Restaurant was closed, but my colleagues said it would reopen soon. Fulton had screamed at the sanitation department and he thought he was better than anybody else. Unexpectedly, the inspector put a warrant [notice] to close the restaurant at once. They had to clear the violations to reopen. I helped them reopen but the business dropped drastically. After one week, my father asked me, “Why don’t you work here? There’s a vacancy at the Peking Garden in Lexington City, Massachusetts. I worked there as a waiter.

I have another story. Once, I was almost mugged while waiting for a long distance Continental bus from Washington Heights to Boston. I tried to get away from him, but he tried to get close, and so I got in a fighting posture. Luckily, the bus arrived, and I jumped on board and escaped.

I was robbed twice. The first time was in 1971 when I was a waiter trainee at Zhi Mei Lou Restaurant. I was waiting for the restaurant to open early in the morning. Three big black guys tried to grab me around my neck and pull me to the staircase. I was small but very nimble. I blocked them with my hands and escaped. I made a gesture indicating I was ready to fight. Suddenly, they said, “Oh, we were just playing around.” I was really surprised, but it turned out there was a policeman in front of us. I immediately told the policeman, “These people want to rob me.” The police said, “They haven’t done anything yet.” I was angry and yelled, “Robbery! Robbery!” But no one cared. I was mad. Why didn’t Chinese people help other Chinese? Why didn’t we unite together? Why do we let others bully us? The three black guys glared at me the whole time, but it didn’t matter. When Zhi Mei Lou restaurant opened, I went in to work. I did not see them again.

Oftentimes, when Chinese were robbed, no one offered any help, because they thought they had no status. In the old Chinese community, no one would care for you. There was a lot of garbage and it was filthy. Some people would even say the Chinese liked to look slovenly in order to get welfare. If that was true, Chinatown would be so prosperous and have such a huge increase in people during these intervening years. After the 9/11 tragedy, it was much worse for a while, but compared to 32 years ago, Chinese people have become stronger and self-sufficient. The Confucius Plaza, Chatham Square, Chatham Green, CITIC Ka Wah Bank and Wing Ming Building [at 2 Mott Street] are all good examples. We Chinese built them ourselves. Also, we have Heng Tung Building on Henry Street. So if we continue this way, Chinatown will once again be prosperous. Yes, 9/11 has victimised Chinatown. If the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association [CCBA], the Fujian Association and the Hakka Association could come together and promote Chinatown, then Chinatown can be revitalised.

Q: How was Chinatown back then?

Chiu: 32 years ago, Chinatown was rotten and not as booming as it is now. Chinatown has developed from a bad place to become a satellite town. If you don’t believe me, you can walk around Mott Street, Broadway, East Broadway and Grand Street. Look at the grocery, fish, meat and gift stores. Yes, the aftermath of 9/11 was a blow to Chinatown. The state of Chinatown before 9/11 was two or three fold more prosperous than what it is now. Of course, for Chinatown to keep growing, to get results, we need investments from the Federal, State and City government and to work together as a team. We also need continuous assistance from Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC), I Love New York, Empire State, and so on. It’s not enough to have people work hard or to make financial investments. I believe in the Chinese proverb “the wool comes from the lamb”- we have to pay for our own expenses. We are not trying to take a lot from the welfare [system]. We only need to give out more. With the Chinese spirit, we strive to become stronger. We sustain ourselves. We work together as a team. These factors will raise up the current status of Chinese people.

I also notice that the officials have stopped being indifferent towards Chinatown and now show concern for the Chinese community. We have to thank the new immigrants who have made us a larger constituency. If we weren’t a large constituency, we wouldn’t attract so much attention now from politicians. I hope both new and former immigrants will cooperate and improve the community, and make this community more prosperous. The government should also help our community.

(Side 2 of tape)

Q: Mr. Chiu, I understand that you do a lot of business. How did 9/11 affect your business?

Chiu: I have been in the United States for 32 years. I worked in Chinatown for 20 years. Why was I away from Chinatown for 10 years and not develop any business in Chinatown? It’s because Chinatown was too rotten and sparsely populated, with people being bullied. Nobody cared when you were mugged. I thought it was a cruel place and I didn’t like coming there.

I went with my father to Massachusetts. It also had a Chinatown but was not as busy as in New York, with few Chinese restaurants. Two years after we came to the United States, we cleared all my father’s debts and borrowed money again to plan for our future. With our friends as references, the same Uncle Zheng who rented us an apartment helped us to open a take-out restaurant in Setauket. My father was in charge of the kitchen. I took care of the front and counter. I guess it was fate. The Chinese restaurant was in the suburbs and was not popular. We had to educate the residents about Chinese food. Thank God I know English. I had to introduce and promote Chinese food [to the people there].

Just when we started, my father died of heart attack. He had been in America for less than three years. The heavy burden of running the restaurant fell on my shoulders. I had to take care of both the kitchen and the front. In the beginning, I could not cook. Back when I had been in Hong Kong, I had done some fundraising events and cooked a few dishes for Caritas Youth Centre in Hong Kong with my parents giving me instructions. So the dishes that my parents taught me I could cook fairly well. I had only been with my father here for a short amount of time. I had not completely mastered cook. Besides a few of my dad’s good friends, I didn’t know anybody in the United States. I had to do everything by myself. I struggled on my own. I had to sustain myself. For 30 years in the United States, my father had wanted me to receive a United States education and work hard for a brighter future. He also had hoped that I could make a better life in America than we had in Hong Kong. Following these two principles, we had refused to take a single penny of welfare from the government, even when we were struggling. The government had once offered us help. We declined it. We did not want help. Instead, we strived hard - as my father once said, “If we grow the food ourselves, it tastes sweeter.” I have stuck to his principle all the time.

My mother was distraught at my father’s early death. She had to watch over us, and she couldn’t work. My mother had married him at an early age, and accompanied him to Shanghai. Two years later, she gave birth to me in Hong Kong. When I was eight or nine, my father went to Japan and worked there for eight years. During all these years, my mother met my father for only short periods of time. While in the United States, my mother expected to spend much more time with him. We thought we would be a happy family. But tragedy struck us, and my father died young.

Although insurance has long been popular in the United States, we never took out a policy. We, the Chinese, thought that it was unlucky to mention death and didn’t want to hear anything about it. We would rather insure ourselves by having more savings. I didn’t even understand the concept of insurance until I was running the restaurant. The agent of an insurance company was a customer in my restaurant. He asked, “How come we don’t see the fat guy (he didn’t know that was my father) cooking any more?” I told him about the tragedy. I said he was my father, and he had just passed away. He said, “Oh, I’m so sorry. Oh, did he have any life insurance?” I said no. He didn’t believe in it. He asked, “Why not?” I said in Hong Kong, people weren’t interested in that. We talked about the concept of insurance. He said one thing, which hit me like a blow. He said, “If your father had had insurance, he would have been able to realize his dream, and you could now do whatever you want.” What he said was like salt in my wounds. I asked, “But who knows if you will really provide compensation?” He spoke very practically, “You don’t have to believe me. You can check it out and analyze it on your own.” I thought that was fair and I listened for three months before applying for a license.

There were 30 students. It seemed like I was the only one who raised questions. I asked tricky questions on all sorts of areas. Each time, I would say, “Maybe I’m not smart, but I really do not understand. Please explain it to me.” The trainer said, “You’re not stupid. In fact, you are the smartest one. The other students think they understand. In fact, they pretend that they understand but actually don’t.” Then, out of the 30 students, only three passed the licensing tests, including me. The trainer said, “Did I teach you something?” I said, “You are right.” The others failed. Of those three who passed the tests, I was the only one who has been working in the field for the last 30 years. Life is so unpredictable.

 

I forgot what your original question was—?

Q: I was asking you how Chinatown has changed?

Chiu: It changed in that there used to be many drunks on Bowery and now there’s none. Building prices have soared from several thousand dollars to a few million dollars. They’ve gone from having a few American banks to many Chinese-operated banks and banks with foreign capital. It’s an unusual thing in the US for there to be so many banks in such a small area. So you can’t say that Chinatown hasn’t changed.

The future of Chinatown is bright, but we need to work together with federal, state and city governments to rebuild Chinatown and make things better. We discovered that the government really wanted to help. I hope that the businesses in Chinatown and those who want to help Chinatown can all work together to present Chinatown on the Internet in the best possible way. We can let future generations see our incredible history, our moments of struggle, conflict and hard work; how we do business with foreigners and help them appreciate our culture and show a good example to them.

Q: Were you one of the earliest insurance agents in Chinatown?

Chiu: You can say so. My father passed away in 1974. I formally signed a contract with New York Life on April 28th, 1975. I planned to work for 20 years, and then I could retire. Actually I couldn’t retire. After 20 years, when I was named a Senior NYLIC Agent, and even after I was named a Post-Senior NYLIC Agent, I still could not abandon my clients. I have to work until I die.

Q: How does 9/11 affect your insurance business?

Chiu: 9/11 has a direct impact on my insurance business. Besides New York Life insurance, my company approved me to run commercial insurance, house insurance businesses and also property and casualty, homeowner, liability and bonds. Besides New York Life, I run investment, mutual fund, IRA, casualty, car, homeowner, clothing store, factory, garment factory, worker compensation, disability, bonds. You name it, I do it. Twenty years ago, I rented a place in Wing Ming building. Ten years later, I rented an office at 11 Doyers Street. Now I have this place.

Why did I skip some years in the middle? That’s because I operated a restaurant business out-of-state in Setauket, near Stony Brook.

Why did I join the insurance business? Because my father died within three years after arriving in the United States and he did not have one penny of insurance. Alfred Lapitino, the manager [of New York Life] told me, “Do you know there are many Chinese families who are just like yours? They need your help. You need to tell them the advantages of insurance.” From then until today, I’ve been serving people with the intention of bringing good news and benefits to Chinese people. We need more than just democracy, we also need what I call “protection.” This protection gives you dignity that others cannot destroy. In a family, even if one or two breadwinners pass away, someone will still bring in money for the family. This is New York Life insurance. It would be best if every family had insurance. If nothing happens, that’s great. The savings could then be used in retirement. A lot of our clients withdraw more from our insurance savings than they get from Social Security. Their Social Security benefits are only a few hundred dollars but the 30 years of insurance premiums that they’ve saved becomes a retirement fund. If people follow my advice, they can enjoy an affluent retirement lifestyle.

Q: How does 9/11 affect the insurance business?

Chiu: 9/11 hit the insurance industry hard, especially property and casualty insurance. The money that was paid out due to the collapse of the buildings has to be recouped by drastically increasing the premiums. A lot of businesses cannot afford these rising insurance costs. They say, “I cannot even afford to pay for basic food. How can I afford to buy insurance? I would rather go without insurance and save some. If something happens, I’ll just close down my business.” It’s hard to do business now because the premium is too high and customers would rather operate without insurance.

Q: How are insurance premiums different from those before 9/11?

Chiu: It’s a lot more expensive. During the last two to three years, the premiums are 40 to 50% more expensive. The prices increased 10 to 20% each year, adding up to a change of about 40 to 50%. The premiums had to increase in order to recoup our losses. But is our business completely gone? No, and in fact, we’ve made up for it in some other areas. It’s become easier to do life insurance, for example. People have clearly seen just how unpredictable life can be. When 9/11 occurred, I had been going over a bridge and I saw the buildings collapse. It was so sad. Tears kept pouring down my face. What I had thought was impossible had actually occurred.

Q: Where were you when 9/11 happened?

Chiu: I was at the far end of the bridge and I wasn’t allowed to cross. On that day, I had to take off early. Normally, I wouldn’t have left so early. When I could not cross the bridge, I called the 5^th precinct in Chinatown in order to ask if they needed any translators. For instance, a lot of Chinese do not understand English. They might not understand what happened and need advice to escape from the disaster. I called and called. All the way until 6pm, no one answered the phone. Why? Everyone went out to rescue people, so there was nobody to answer the phone. It was like we were in a war where all communications were lost. It was lucky that I didn’t go to Chinatown, because you weren’t allowed to go out for two to three days. It was two to three weeks until I was allowed into Chinatown, and I had to bring along documents to prove my identity.

Q: What do you think of the 9/11 incident?

Chiu: I think having democracy is good but too much democracy is a disaster. Why is that so? Why was it so easy for the terrorists to commit this crime and use our own resources to hurt us? It’s because the United States is too democratic which allows the young, fresh graduates- I think most of the airline workers are young people, who are carefree. They lead a leisurely life style with good food, nice homes, good education and put pleasure before work. When they work, they are not serious enough. Every employee should be paid to work - not chatting, and not joking. These workers missed the terrorists, let them hijack the planes for an hour and were unable to stop them and let them hit the World Trade Center. This whole situation shows us that the American government and the public education system of the United States have to change. If they cannot improve and become stronger like the Chinese and if they don’t motivate themselves but instead are content with ease and comfort, bad things will eventually happen. Don’t blame Bush, who might have ignored the intelligence. Don’t blame Clinton for not working diligently. We should learn from John.F. Kennedy: “Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.” We should contribute our talent to improve Chinatown. Although 9/11 was cruel, if everyone contributes, Chinatown will prosper twice as much.

If you don’t agree with me, just go out and look. Look at the new Chinese immigrants in East Broadway for instance. Wasn’t there a depression here after 9/11? Not only East Broadway, but also the other areas, we need customers from outside. And so do the jewellery, gift and restaurant industries.

Let’s go back to the Columbus Park project. We can find ways to build a six-,seven-, eight- story underground parking lot and allocate space for several thousand parking spaces. Customers can come and not worry about parking or paying for the parking fees. Chinatown will become a shopping paradise and dining paradise. More customers would come to Chinatown and the place would prosper.

The government has researched possible parking sites. Columbus Park is one place they’re considering. I hope the government will approve the Columbus Park project. I dare say that this project would, without a doubt, solve all parking problems for the federal, state and city agencies. We won’t have to worry about that anymore, and it will cease being a controversial issue. We have to do things with precision, without confusion or misunderstandings. Actually, a lot of things have been done wrong. I think one story of the Columbus parking lot could provide 300 parking spaces. A seven- to ten- story building, if it was entirely for parking, would create 3,000 to 4,000 parking spaces, and this would allow more people to come to Chinatown. Chinatown could improve things, and business could increase. Parking fees could become cheaper. Anyway, it’s just a single place so it would be economical. We could keep a park on the surface. We’d only have to build underground. We can build it with today’s technology.

Q: When will this project be implemented?

Chiu: The project is still being researched. I am one of the advisors of Lower Manhattan Development Corporation. We’ve already held two meetings. An announcement will be made in April, with our purpose being to develop Chinatown. I hope they will approve the project this time. We’ll have to do a lot more public relations work and lots of events. We have a whole bunch of plans. In fact there is a meeting at 10 AM tomorrow to discuss these issues.

Q: Mr. Chiu, how was your other business besides the insurance? Could you discuss them with us?

Chiu: It’s not just my business. Take the tourist industry as an example. Almost all agents closed

after 9/11. A lot of them had worked together, and had the help of wholesalers. Afterwards, they all negatively influenced each other, and most closed because there was no business at all. Tourist agencies cannot function scattered in different places. Our family tourist business did not have any business because nobody was willing to travel. Now it is better. We continue to have some hotel reservations, car rentals and travelling business. Domestic travel is still weak.

We don’t know if things will recover, especially because airlines make direct sales and have a monopoly. They don’t need a third party to be their agent. Travel agents will disappear. Only a few will survive. There won’t be as many as before, because they can’t make ends meet.

Q: So, where is Setauket Travel Agency?

Chiu: In fact, now we have only one office for all our businesses. We had tried to divide into branches. Now we have just one, in order to minimize costs and survive. We’re not accustomed to getting relief funds, and we feel that we’ll find a way to get through this period. If we can’t succeed, we’ll just close.

Q: How is 9/11 affecting your business?

Chiu: 9/11 takes away a large proportion of our travel business. We’ve only got our old, loyal customers, and there’s not many of them. It’s a lot worse than it used to be.

Q: Are most of the travel packages domestic ones?

Chiu: There is almost no more domestic business. Foreign customers stay away because of SARS and anti-terrorism measures. Many of them had a hard time getting a visa to the United States. On the other hand, we get new business whenever new immigrants gain green cards. They go back to Mainland China or Hong Kong and travel there. If it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t have any business at all.

Q: You have been in the tourism business for more than 30 years?

Chiu: I’ve worked in the tourism business from 1971 to the present. After I came to the U.S., I was involved in the business for a short while. And then I was in Long Island and worked in a travel agency at Setauket. And then I bought the business. When I moved the business to Chinatown, I kept the name Setauket Travel. The Chinese name was called Liu Feng, named after my father’s hometown. Both names refer to suburbs. Now the travel agency is called Chinatown Travel because we moved it to Chinatown.

Q: Do you think the tourism industry in Chinatown has reached its nadir?

Chiu: Chinatown’s tourism industry in Chinatown is in the midst of its deepest depression, and is struggling to survive. Now it’s time to unite. If everyone works hard we can make it and find some opportunities. Otherwise, it’s really going to be tough.

Q: Besides that, what other businesses do you have?

Chiu: Import and export. I was importing jelly fish heads. After 9/11, we ended up overstocked and couldn’t sell them. I suffered a huge loss. The goods stayed in the warehouse and could not be sold. I had to discard them. It was really horrible. When the customers do not pay, I won’t reorder the same product. We won’t import that product anymore. So that business is practically over.

Q: Why was imported food especially affected?

Chiu: Because after 9/11, the restaurant business diminished and individuals had less income. When the economy is so weak, who’s going to buy luxury items? Jellyfish are expensive. They cost between seven and ten dollars a pack. Second-rate jellyfish costs three dollars.

Q: How much did you lose?

Chiu: We actually lost thousands and thousands of dollars, a total loss. The storage and other expenses we already paid for could not be refunded. The loss was huge.

Q: You have so many different businesses. Was 9/11 a huge blow to you personally?

Chiu: It was a heavy blow to everybody, and it was also a heavy blow to me. Luckily, my insurance business survived. You can say that was my last fallback.

Q: Mr. Chiu, you’re Fujianese. What is the difference between the old and new Fuzhou immigrants here? Or what are the differences between the way Fuzhou used to be and the way it is now?

Chiu: There’s a huge difference between recent and past Fuzhou immigrants. In 1971, you could distinguish between the locals and the ones that entered illegally on ships. Ninety-five percent of them would cover their heads. They were always staring around with their heads lowered. I pitied them and didn’t want them to be caught. I would pat their shoulders and talk to them. They would be very scared and stare at me. I talked to them first in Cantonese. If they did not know how to reply, then I would use the little bit of Fujianese that I had learned as a kid. If they were Fujianese, I would tell them, “Don’t walk in such a timid way. People will know you’re an illegal immigrant off the boat and you will be arrested. Walk like me and nobody will catch you.” I dare say, a lot of people will remember what I’ve told them. Ha ha.

Q: Why was illegal immigration so easy back then?

Chiu: It was not so easy. At that time, sailors had boarding passes to come on shore, but they didn’t go back. This was called “jumping ship.” They had no other way. Most of them just “jumped ship.” They worked on the ship as seamen, as sailors, as crew, as cooks or helpers, or as deliverymen. They escaped when they came to the United States and didn’t go back to the ships. “Jumping ship” doesn’t necessarily mean that they literally jumped from the ship into the sea and then swam ashore.

Like the overseas students who liked staying in the United States and looked for a sponsor, and then never returned. Or some people came by tourist or business visas and decided they wanted to stay. These are all just ways to change your position. If you’re rich, you can apply for a tourist visa or do business here and end up getting permanent residency. All the different methods are fine. There’s nothing wrong with them. People who weren’t as privileged used other methods which fit them.

“Do I oppose anyone who came to the United States illegally?” In fact, no, I think Americans and their ancestors came to the United States illegally and invaded the country. That created America. American-born citizens should not be anti-immigrant and should not sanction illegal immigrants. If they do, that’s like a slap in their own face, unless they are Native Americans. No one should oppose immigrants, or they themselves should not be here.

But we should have a way to make immigrants follow the right path to immigrate, because a small number of immigrants committed crimes in the United States and endangered both the Chinese community and public safety. We also see some Chinese being oppressed, bullied, assassinated and murdered. If you can unite and help each other mutually, we will have more power. Why? If we are plentiful in number, we will have a lot of votes, and then elected officials will do more for us. If we work against each other, the politicians will manipulate us. We need officials to work for us and be our public servants. They have to represent us and work for us. Otherwise, we’re completely useless.

Q: Mr. Chiu, after all these years, you must have been back to Fuzhou a few times. What was your impression?

Chiu: I have gone back and taken a look at Fuzhou. In 1980, 10 years after I immigrated, I went back to Fuzhou via Hong Kong. My mother had lived a hard life with my father. She followed him from Fuzhou to Shanghai, then to Hong Kong, and finally to the United States. She didn’t return to Fuzhou during all this time, until 1977. I did not have enough money to take her home to see her parents. I took out a loan from the bank in order to fulfil her wish. Then my mother wanted to apply for her parents to come to the United States. In 1980, I went back to Fuzhou and applied for visas for them in Guangzhou. They came to the United States via Hong Kong. My maternal grandfather asked my mother, “If I die, what will you do with me?” My mother said, “If you like, I will bury you here with my late husband.” My grandfather said, “No, it’s too quiet here. I have to return home.” My mother said, “You don’t have to be in a hurry to go back. Stay here. If you pass away, I will send your body home.” My grandfather said, “What if you don’t send me home? What will happen to me? It’s livelier back there.” He insisted on returning to China. He said it was nice we settled down in the United States. He was an old man, after all, over eighty years old. If he stayed here, he could only look at the sky and the four walls in the house. Although we lived in a [two-story] colonial house with front and back yards and have a big family, he was still not used to it. He went back to China with my grandmother. Two years later, he passed away at the age of 90. I heard the news when I was attending a New York Life educational conference in West Virginia. I went back with my mother to take care of his funeral ceremony in China and then we returned together. My grandmother came to the United States several times, but she got bored and went back.

As far as what I saw when I returned to Fuzhou in 1980 – I wept continuously from Hong Kong to Guangzhou. Why? China was so miserable, dusty and without infrastructure. I thought, China is so poor that it’s no wonder others look down on it. In Shanghai, I was trapped in traffic jams all the time. It took two hours to drive 12 miles and I would have gotten there faster walking. Everything was so backwards and miserable.

It was even worse in Fuzhou. When the wind blew, yellow sand scattered every where. The buildings were worn out. There was nothing there. China was really miserable. That was in 1980.

When I returned again in 1982, I saw some changes taking place. I was there in 1984 for my grandfather’s funeral. In 1983, representing this community, I raised funds for a dragon boat contest there to promote athletics. Each time we led a tour from the United States to Fuzhou, I saw changes. And in September 2003, last year, there were highways and skyscrapers everywhere, the streets were orderly, and the buildings were so tall you couldn’t see their tops. In 1980, there were so many bicycles that you could not even cross the street. Now, we have skywalks built across the second floors of the buildings. We don’t have to cross the streets on the ground floor. We can follow their example and cross the roads on the second floors of buildings in Chinatown or combine skywalks with escalators for the elderly. Let the cars have the road. We could also have businesses on the second floor. I think it would be a nice thing and a huge plan for development, and in the future, it could be expanded when there is more investment.

We need this kind of construction in order to develop our Chinatown.

Q: Do you think Fuzhou became prosperous as a result of immigrants returning to their homeland?

Chiu: Not just recent immigrants, but also past immigrants who returned to invest in properties and in business. And it wasn’t just in Fuzhou City, but also in suburban areas such as Changle. They completely remade these places. There was more construction work in the suburban areas than in the cities. The roads and highways are so advanced that from Fuzhou to Xiamen, it takes only one hour, while it took eight hours in the past. Transportation is convenient. There are lots of new buildings, but not so many people living in them. Thus, the price of the buildings is not so high. The price will go up only when demand is greater than supply. Currently, there is more supply than demand.

When I organized a tour for [U.S.] policemen to visit China, they said, “Now I understand why the new immigrants will risk their lives to come to the United States, willing to send home money home and repay a huge debt. For if they work hard for a few years in the United States, they could return to their homeland and build three- or four- story buildings. They don’t use red bricks, rather they use beautiful white tiles, and build fences. The homes are very classy, like those of the rich.

Q: What other public service positions do you hold within the community?

Chiu: While I was working, I never thought of returning. One major task I did was to help out with burials. When Golden Venture crashed, 10 persons drowned. On behalf of our American Fujian Association of Commerce and Industry Inc., we claimed the bodies, buried them and located their families. Four of them were very lucky in that we could identify them, notify their families and have their bodies returned. The other six were not so lucky. We had to bury them. Mrs. Amy Chan of Ng & Chun Fook Funeral Services and Mrs. Ying Kam, Yu Tang donated $10,000. We donated our manpower. Ng & Chun Fook paid for the rest. Everyone got involved in this charity work in a different way. We are still searching for the families of the deceased. One of them we may be able to locate. Ten years later, a Chinese reporter asked me to make an appeal one more time in the newspapers. A Chinese family had been looking for their son who had been missing for 10 years. But there was only one drop of blood [on the cotton gauze] and it may not be enough to identify the DNA. We need about one square inch of blood to identify the DNA. If the person identified is their son, we will have one more body to return to their family.

Q: Were most of the Golden Venture passengers Fujianese?

Chiu: Most were Fujianese, and there were also many from Wenzhou City. The second family who claimed a body was from Wenzhou, Zhejiang province. When they came forward to claim the body, the immigration officer ordered the family member to be arrested. It was only after we called this inhumane treatment that they released the family. America is a democratic country. They felt bad when we said they were undemocratic. Then they released the names of 10 who drowned and let people claim them. Every family had to claim the body with my signatures and approval, because I was the person who claimed their bodies.

Q: What is the moral of this tragedy for immigrants?

Chiu: Frankly speaking, it tells immigrants that America is no paradise. Whenever I returned and explained that, they did not believe me, as if I was lying. I told them that America is a “slave training camp”. No one should work over 13 hours but I worked at least 13 hours every day during my 32 years in the United States. So I told them the Untied States is a “slave training camp”. They argued, “But why are you still there?” I said I had no choice. They would not believe me.

They said the United States was a paradise. I said the United States was a paradise as well as a hell. If you cannot earn enough money, you are in hell. If you earn enough money, anywhere would be a paradise. That’s true not only in the United States but also in China. I told them, you’re already very fortunate and don’t even know it. I said, in China, you get food even if you don’t work. In the United States, if you don’t work you don’t eat. No one believed in me back then. Upon their arrival here, they realized I was telling the truth. They told me, “I should have listened to your advice. I didn’t listen and now I’m in trouble.”

Q: When the Golden Venture tragedy happened, did it act as a warning in China and Fuzhou and cause less people to come to America?

Chiu: I thought they did a good job of keeping the story a secret. Not a lot of people knew about the Golden Venture. Chinese people living outside of China knew more about it. Some overseas Chinese knew about it from foreign television. They knew from news report that I helped in burials and held a Buddhist funeral ceremony at the shore.

The biggest project we worked for in the community was to reopen Grand Street Station. We finally succeeded in demanding a subway line between Grand St. Station and DeKalb Avenue- saving our passengers time walking and transferring. When they repaired the Manhattan Bridge, they originally planned to complete it in eight years. Instead, it only took two years and Grand Street Station had already reopened. That’s how the community is rewarded if we work at it.

I was also involved in the Chinatown cleaning campaign but it wasn’t that successful. I think Chinatown should have our own private garbage trucks. Whenever the trash cans get full, they can pick it up. It’s worth it to pay more and get better service. If Chinatown was cleaner, more tourists would be willing to shop here. After all, everything is cheap in Chinatown.

As far as the roads go, Chinatown has lots of potholes. East Broadway is already improved. I made a complaint last month about a fund that was already approved to redo the road surface at the intersection of Doyer Street and East Broadway since they had claimed that they didn’t have any funds. I said, “That’s no excuse. I know the federal funds have already arrived. I can accept other excuses but not this.” After one week, they finally started working on the road. But they didn’t dig the usual seven inches. They only replaced two or three inches. It was only surface work. They replied that different methods would be used for complete renovation. I hope this project works, because there are two spots in East Broadway that always sink even after repeated fillings. It would benefit Chinatown if the problem is fixed.

Besides these projects, I personally think there are not enough parking spaces in Chinatown. Everyday, we hear complaints, that government employees have taken away our parking spaces. Why can’t we build an underground parking lot with three to four stories and let them park their cars and not occupy surface streets. Or we could build a few skywalks with escalators for the elderly and allow pedestrians to move around without walking. They wouldn’t block traffic, and elderly pedestrians wouldn’t get hit by cars. Wouldn’t this project make Chinatown more prosperous?

Q: When will these plans be implemented?

Chiu: I think LMDC has accomplished 70% of what I would desire. I think these things are very important and necessary. Chinatown is vastly different from what it was 30 years ago, even though there was a drastic drop-off after 9/11. If Chinatown is going to improve, the parking problem must be solved. If we do not even have enough space to live, how can we have enough spaces for cars? If one has to pay 20 to 30 dollars for parking while having dinner in Chinatown, people will choose to eat close to where they live and save money.

I also have hopes for the 2^nd Avenue subway station project. I hope it will start soon and that will make Chinatown prosper. For 32 years, Chinatown did not have her own subway station. It would be a big convenience if we had a subway spot at the intersections near Mott Street and East Broadway and Park Row. Just dig a hole in East Broadway or Park Row and that will be the underground subway station. The project should start as soon as possible. It will help revitalize Chinatown.

Q: Mr. Chiu, you mentioned that the relationship between police and locals was not so good in the past. Has it improved recently?

Chiu: The police-civilian relationship has changed drastically in recently years. I went to the police plaza headquarters and explained to them how Chinese people feel. Don’t assume the Chinese are opposed to the police. I also suggested the police should be courteous and have a better attitude towards Chinese people. Through networking, I got to know some officers better and I brought them on a trip to China. They realized that most Chinese people are good-natured. Only a handful of bad ones need to be dealt with. The police treat Chinese citizens a lot better.

There was once a police action on East Broadway to arrest illegal peddlers. When the police arrived, the peddlers fled. After the police left, the peddlers set up their booths again. For a long time, the police could not make any arrests. They were mad. A Chinese policeman grabbed a child and threw him into a police van like he was throwing out garbage. All the Chinese people were stunned. They asked me to confront the policeman. The arrested boy was frightened because he had no legal status and he also worried that he could not survive upon release since the police might take revenge on him. Both the arrested and the arrester were Chinese. This was the first time that the Chinese policeman had done anything like this. Someone said, “If we don’t teach him a lesson now, he’ll be even worse in the future.” They thought that policeman was as bad as colonial police. When I confronted him for the first time, he was mad. But we could not blame him, he had gotten fired up. I was angry too.

　　 I told him calmly, “I know you are very mad at this moment and very agitated. But let me tell you one thing. If the child you threw was my son, I would pull my gun out and shoot you. You are doing something very stupid; you’re not behaving like a police officer. If you don’t want to say you’re sorry and apologize for this act, I’ll make your life very difficult. Do you want all the reporters in front of the police station, and see your name in the newspaper? You’ll lose your job.” He said, “Fine, I apologize.” Then he closed the door and apologised to the child and his family. They all greeted at me. I wanted everything to be resolved peacefully. If he knows he was wrong, and he corrects his ways, that’s all I want. I don’t want to cause trouble for one person. If he lost his job and went on welfare, how would we benefit? We want a good community. We have to work together. Everybody will make some mistakes, right?”

Q: When was that?

Chiu: It happened a few years ago. Now we have community police officers and youth explorers. When youngsters see something happen, they immediately tell the police so that they can halt the crime and make an arrest. We have community days and sponsor the local precinct during community activities on important days like Christmas. We sent in gifts and gave out fingerprint kits, car detailing products and other things. These are events that improve the relationship between police and residents.

Q: How is the 5^th precinct police station in Chinatown different from what it used to be? Is it still at the same location?

Chiu: The location is the same as 30 years ago. I have known some captains and lieutenants. They are nice people. Some of them are really nice to the Chinese, especially Ronald Lekos. He is Greek and took good care of the Chinese. There is also a Thomas Chen. In the future, we might have Michael Lau. I call him Captain Lau. He is a community officer at the Police Plaza.

Q: Would you say that you are very satisfied with the current police-civilian relationship?

Chiu: Speaking frankly, they could be even better, of course, with more funding and manpower.

Q: Mr. Chiu, you have children here. What hopes do you have for them?

Chiu: Frankly, Chinese people always say. “Children are insurance for old age.” But we can’t have that same expectation now. We say that child-rearing is educating elites now. I hope they gain academic knowledge while learning Chinese customs from their home. Then they can accomplish even more than us. We can’t control the result, because American education over-emphasizes liberty and democracy. And they overdo it, so that you can never completely… My elder son was a student in Binghamton University. He joined the National Guard Reserves and is learning to repair Black Hawk helicopters to prepare for a position as a crew chief. He also learned how to use machineguns. Last year, he taught the new soldiers to shoot. It is nice if he will contribute to our country. My hope is that he studies even better in the future.

My second son is a fresh man at Stony Brook University and he is a good student. He wants to be a scientist, not a money-maker. I hope he can be a distinguished scientist. It would also be good if he contributes to his family and himself.

Q: You have been living in the United States for such a long time. Now that 9/11 has happened, what do you think of the United States? Do you still think that United States is a good country?

Chiu: The United States is an excellent country. We should have democracy but not too extreme. If kids are allowed to have too much democracy or misuse democracy, a lot of things will happen, including cults, groups running money scams in the name of democracy and so on. We should not just sit here and do nothing. We should point out the risk.

Q: Do you have anything to add?

Chiu: I was going to ask you the same question. Sometimes I have so much to say that I could talk endlessly. I could talk for three days non-stop.

Q: Do you have any hopes for Chinatown?

Chiu: We have to live together and cooperate. We have to make Chinatown prosper by keeping peace and not arguing. We should not try to gain credit for what others do. Instead, we should work as a team and Chinatown will become better. We hope we can double our prosperity within three or five years and not wait another 30 years. If we are willing to cooperate and make Chinatown prosper, I believe we can do it and we will succeed.

Q: Thank you for your interview. Today is March 30th, 2004. This is the Chinatown Oral History Project of the Museum of Chinese in the Americas. The interviewee is Mr. William Chiu. The interviewer is me, I-ching Ng.

Chiu: Thank you.

(End of tape)

<p> 問：趙先生，可以講述一下你未移民前在香港的生活嗎？</p>
<p>趙：其實我在香港的時間比我在美國的時間更短，只有19年，懂事之後在六歲左右，我依稀記得那是由九龍塘搬去中環，到德忌笠街住，在二樓，即是什麼酒吧樓上，因為我剛回去看過，所以知道。那時很頑皮，爸爸媽媽做到會的生意，我們頑皮起來有很多地方走，因為那時德忌笠街沒有車，我們時時玩兵捉賊。</p>
<p>問：那時是什麼時候？</p>
<p>趙：當時是六歲，1958年左右，那時搬到中環，在德忌笠街住兩年，因為業主要趕走，非走不可，搬到對面街和安里，二年後遷居到榮華里，都是在隔離，也是在蘭桂坊，住到1963年左右，爸爸因為有病，連續兩次腦溢血後，媽媽就不容許他做這份工，將生意賣給自己夥記及朋友，後來爸爸接受到日本的邀請，到留園當廚師，教日本人煮菜，輕鬆很多，一天只工作8個小時，不用時時工作。</p>
<p>問：你們做到會生意有多忙？</p>

<p> 趙：我們記得最忙的時候，有22個夥記，四至五個大師傅，一晚去幾個地方。</p>
<p>問：那時候做到會生意是否很普遍？</p>
<p>趙：正式來說不是很多這方面的人才，有些是自己做酒樓或打工，江浙人士很喜歡在家請客，叫大師傅到他們的家煮一餐，第一溫馨一點，第二是自己人或一起做生意的人，在家傾偈(談話)很方便。通常叫到會的老板，家中地方相當大，有些一層樓，有些一座樓，如九龍塘、跑馬地、半山區等。那時是全盛時期，我爸爸每天都很忙，由朝忙到晚。</p>
<p>問：趙先生你為什麼會移民來美國？</p>
<p>趙：講起來有段古，我媽媽後來憶述給我們，我爸爸在1950年由上海到香港，媽媽在1951年到香港，我1952年在香港出生，1948年爸爸到福州娶我媽媽回來，到上海，我有個家姐1949年在上海出生，從上海到香港，爸爸在上海未懂得做生意，聽人講賣毛巾會賺錢，因此把所有節約的金錢去購買毛巾，到了香港沒有人買，虧蝕很多。當時上海很多人到香港做生意，其中有一個上海老闆，徐家在上海做律師問：「不如到我家做廚師。」，我爸就在他那裡打工，有很多上海煮食是徐家教煮的，很棒。他家中的徐老太時時教爸爸煮上海菜，徐老太到上海館吃飯時問廚師如何煮，<br>

回來就教我爸爸如何煮，所以我爸爸煮上海菜很不錯。後來徐老先生移民來美國時，捨不得我爸爸，他問：「大師傅有什麼要求？想不想到美國？」我爸爸回答說「想。」因為爸爸曾在天主教會登記成為難民移民，但一直沒有消息。徐老先生說：「我到美國，想辦法申請你來。」其後一直沒有消息。到我十來歲時，也沒有消息，都以為沒有機會了。雖然我爸爸以前也提及：「如果徐老先生在，申請我們過去，你讀書就不用這麼多錢，我們就不用這樣辛苦了。要留學就到台灣吧！」</p>
<p>　　　　可能是命運安排，聽說徐老先生去世前有個遺願，承諾趙大師傅，但未有做到。徐老先生有個女兒，是李聯旅行社的東主──李太，她和李先生很熱心，到處找我爸爸找不到，有一次帶團到日本，我爸爸在留園當廚師，在留園飯店遇到爸爸，李先生問：「趙大師傅，你要不要來美國？」我爸爸說：「想。」回美後，李生李太找到致美樓的葉先生，由致美樓申請我們來美國，當時P6(第六優先)可以申請來美移民。三個月不到，爸爸在日本，移民美國文件批出來了，爸爸返回香港申請家屬，一家九個人，當時我姐姐在丹麥，不包括姐姐，大概八月，當時有六個月的時間簽證。你知道我們當時並不知道美國是怎麼樣的。為什麼喜歡到美國？講起來有段古。</p>
<p>　　　　你知道香港因為鴉片戰爭，割讓給英國，以前不懂，只曉得玩及睡，及被爸爸媽媽逼著讀書。以前全盛期，我在高主教讀書時，有人接送我上學及返家，我現在還記得。</p>
<p>　　　　讀中學時，歷史書講到反清，講到中華民國等現代史的時候，<br>

就截著歷史不教了。那時在中四，對近代史很模糊，為什麼當時有美國政府保護？當時台灣是美國政府承認，有美國保護。又什麼叫支那？ 有人叫蔣匪，有人叫毛賊，為什麼會這樣？讀書的作用是問能增進識宜，何恥之有？君子要聞下問，我就問老師：「什麼是蔣匪毛賊？」誰知大件事了，撞著的老師是跟隨蔣介石從軍的，老師轟轟烈烈走過來，叉著腰：「你要找死！」指著我的頭：「你指蔣總統做蔣匪，我殺了你的頭！」我回應，我不懂才問，我問才會知道。老師說：你還回嘴！」。我為這件事被記一個大過，無端端被記大過，從此我就去深入研究，既然你不與我說，既然你稱毛賊可以，為什麼不能稱蔣匪呢？於是我剛開始政治知識，因為無端被記大過，太慘痛了。由那天開始，這教國語及歷史的老師第一個給我難堪，諸多刁難，故此我的國文及歷史背得很熟，到後來不需學現代史時，我整個人輕鬆下來，因為不需日日去溫習。</p>
<p> 　　知道為什麼林則徐在虎門銷毀鴉片？為什麼中國因為反對鴉片毒品而被英國攻打虎門？為什麼要割讓香港？後來因為清約而割讓香港，很憎日本人及英國人，英國人販毒，害我們中國人。那時也是很模糊，因為中國和台灣土地一大片，為什麼分左右派？覺得很無理，和很不合理，同時對英國政府有偏見：如果不是英國人殘害中國人，中國就不會這麼容易被打敗！中國人不會被日本人叫東亞病夫！ 所以我的尚武精神就開始了。</p>

<p> 雖然以前有玩武術，師傅以前在德忌笠街造生意，我不是跟你說過我少年時住的地方嗎？我少時很頑皮，在石樓梯邊游玩，那裡有水有青苔，我扮賊，別人抓我時，我腳踏在青苔上，滑到，卜一聲，跌破頭，這裡有一度疤痕，那時是8歲左右，我師傅就在對面，為我止血，醫好我。我後來于1964年遷居到嘉咸街，我師傅亦遷居到我家對面，可算有緣，我便拜師，李伯靈（李北）蔡李佛拳第三傳人是我的蔡李佛功夫師傅。他并且教我鐵打醫術，使我在美受益不淺。</p>
<p>問：你是否因為不喜歡英國政府，使你轉而喜歡美國政府？</p>
<p>趙：是，因為英國政府的殖民統治，如此取得香港，香港人受到壓制，尤其是到政府部門，政府人員狐假虎威，兇惡，我想這是什麼世界。</p>
<p>　　　　再者，讀書時知道美國很大，但不知道這麼大，我當時只想到台灣讀書，因為美國讀書太貴，我想到台灣，但那時除國文及歷史外，沒有一科是中文，對中文完全不懂。我因為想做醫生，當時在台大，當時承認台灣是中國，有些科目是用中文考生物及化學，英文還可以，回到中文，我連問什麼也一點看不懂，故此考不到台大。</p>

<p> 我想既然中文不行，不能造醫生，我第二個愿望是要做商人，我要實踐，由低做起，我的中學畢業會考不合格，只有三至四科，不足五科。當時由我契媽（樊英）的老闆 Mr Gibson是美國人，原居地住在芝加哥，介紹我給他的生意合夥人顧文忠先生德信行的老闆，她一介紹，顧老闆就說：「好呀，你來吧！」，在德信行，由最低層做起，那間是德信國際貿易有限公司，是出口美國和加拿大的貿易公司，專門做羊毛衫，外銷英國、美國、加拿大及澳洲四個地方。其中我契媽的的老闆 MR GIBSON亦是大主顧之一，所以亦是對我另眼相看，算是有機緣。他說：「你來，自己看檔案，什麼都可以看。」但那時其實是不容許的，為什麼呢？ 朝早九時上班，我七時半就到寫字樓，逐個檔案去讀，沒有事就練打字，將一些文件重新打過，可能有些職員不滿，有三十多個職員，有些主任看見，不喜歡(like) 我的行為，問我：「你知不知道這是機密文件，你是不能看的。」我答道：「老闆叫我看，」主任就說：「既然老闆叫你看，那我們就不干涉，」</p>
<p>　　　　很快六個月左右，我知道做生意的輪廓，老闆對我真的不錯，他連如何與人洽談生意的信件、如何取得樣板、如果取錢、如何收費、取得信用狀、如何寫約定信(confirmation)、將單賣給銀行等等，所以六個月後，我升職三級，但工資照常，因為除了打字，我還驗貨，做confirmation，什麼都做。</p>
<p>　　　　別人做後生是做工，我卻出來做代表；別人排隊給人罵，我就去罵人。因為我不值政府官員的狐假虎威，排隊仍要罵，我就站出來說：「我要見你的主任先生，因為你們的態度有問題。」他們就怕了，<br>

有什麼要做的就先為我做，所以我做事比別人快，我做事要找主管，因為我是代表德信行來這裡做事。我外出時，別人拿一個袋子，我就要公司買個公文箱給我用，會計說：「你憑什麼買個公文箱？」我說：「我是代表德信行辦事，要有威信，沒有公文箱怎可以？」他當場語塞，要買給我。以前洗碗手會變粗，我要洗碗買潤膚霜，他說：「為什麼要買潤膚霜，沒有人學你這樣麻煩？」我說：「如果洗杯弄壞手，難道要公司賠？」可能因為是老闆的關係，他們不敢阻攔。</p>
<p>　　　　我所要求做的事可以一天可以做很多，流滿汗，一天做八九樣事情，故此老闆時時讚我：「你做得很好」，賞我錢買東西吃，那時我才17,18歲。<br>
　　　　我在德信行做了一年就來了美國，晚上修讀會計，為什麼呢？我覺得有需要，如果不懂得會計，不會做事。所以我對著公司的會計，有時也會考起他們，因為他們不一定是專業會計，而我在香港已經開始讀了。</p>
<p>問：請講述一下知道要來美國那一刻，你的感覺怎麼樣？</p>
<p>趙：當我們知道要來美國，很高興。當時老闆做南美洲，北美洲生意，當時我就做非洲生意，因為我不想學到老闆的功夫，而搶他的飯碗(生意)，所以我要另闢門徑。美洲的生意容易做，老闆的生意大量，利潤小，我們的生意是少量的，利潤大，正當我想向老闆提議新開發的時候，移民已經批准了，我要和老闆講再見。做到12月，<br>

老闆也很明白，他對我說，以前他也在美國做大兵，後來由美國到香港發展，留在香港。</p>
<p>　　　　我來美國時的飛機票很貴，我要想到最平，因為我想做生意，四處去鑽，亦知道那裡去問，找到最平，當時就已經做旅行社，所以買機票特別平，李聯旅行社在香港做旅行社，我照樣建議給香港的李聯旅行社，李聯也照樣給我們做，為什麼呢？正式來說，我們的恩人是李太，或者是李太的爸爸徐老先生，如果不是他的一句話，我們仍然在香港，做人要飲水思源，我們一定要記得李太，記得徐家對我們的好處，幫助我們這麼大的忙。</p>
<p>　　　　在英國管治下很壓抑，就算是英國公民也只能算是二等公民，而且是分級地(classified)告訴你，你去英國還要簽證，那是一派胡言，承認你是英國人士，不，只是承認你用英籍人士，你是英國子民(British Subject)，不是英國人，他們的態度是歧視所有英籍子民，只有英國人才是英國人，我覺得沒有民主。其次我覺得英國是賊的國家，為什麼講這些？因為她是靠賣鴉片發達，為了利益侵略別人的國家，割別人的地，所以讀書時說，英國日不落國，以為很威風，後來看見英國人因為林則徐銷煙打中國人，另我憎恨英國。</p>
<p>　　　　在香港的英國少年很喜歡欺負中國少年，他們走路招搖，朝向迎面而來的華人一肘子就撞過來，你要驚，要迴避，不單對我一個是這樣。我的反應剛剛相反，你撞來，你一肘打回來，我一肘子打回去，他們痛至不能出聲，我也順便說：「我好痛！好痛！」沒有一個人敢出聲。</p>
<p>　　　　亦試過有一回有一個十多歲的英國孩子，我們中國人經過他面前，被他一拳打在肚皮上，如果我行過去就不同了，我知道他就快出手，因為他打人在先，我就先一拳格回來，再打回去，<br>

他痛極，也不敢出聲，很多這些情況，使我,產生物極必反的原素。</p>
<p>　　　　1966年，法西斯暴動，打人，學校內人士分開左派右派，我觀念很模糊，有些人說：「我們要團結在一起，高唱東方紅，反抗英政府。」也看到香港政府懷柔政策，我們中國人被壓逼，更加不喜歡香港。我不要做殖民地人，如果我要做殖民地人，我寧可做美國的殖民地人。</p>
<p>　　　　移民去美國時，我們個個都很興奮，買日本航空公司機票到美國，我爸爸在東京做了八年，很多日本朋友，日本人飛來香港，看望爸爸，我也學過日本文三個月，但沒有使用過。在東京機場已經覺得大，在美國第一眼到見到甘迺迪(JFK)機場，真的是目瞪口呆，世界之大，因為JFK氣勢驚人，一望無際。別人有時差(jetlag)，我則三天不到就很精神。當時是1971年，第一次見下雪。</p>
<p>　　　　我在致美樓學做侍應生，致美樓在現在的Subway Deli，在東百老匯口、包厘及宰也街（Doyer）旁邊，右手第二或第三間是Subway，x福商場及旁邊的Subway Deli是屬於致美樓餐館的舊址，就是這間餐廳申請爸爸來美國，可以講我們一家人算是最幸運的一個家庭。</p>
<p>問：其實當年申請去美國是否很難？</p>
<p>趙：如果沒有資格，是申請不到的，為什麼會有這麼多跳船，<br>

又留學生留下不離開？ 就是美國的移民政策比較寬鬆，所以留下來。現在在美國的老僑領大部份是以前走船來美，或是留學生留在美國，沒有回去，很少正式移民到這裡。在這裡落地生根的人甚少，尤其是福建人這一邊，我還記得那時只有一間福建同鄉會，人丁很單薄，只有數百人。直至今日，在美東三州地區，保守估計，有50萬至60萬人。</p>
<p>問：從香港申請來美國，你提及你爸爸在教會申請難民，情況如何？</p>
<p>趙：申請難民，石沉大海，完全沒有消息，我們移民來的時候也要報告，否則我也不知道，因年紀很小。</p>
<p>問：申請難民是否很困難？</p>
<p>趙：正式來說，除非有技術，及有人申請來。否則連想都不要想。</p>
<p>　　　　1971年的的唐人街和現在的有天淵之別，Mott Street當時旺的程度，也不及現在這裡旺，只有兩三條街，移民的1971年到致美樓學做企枱(待應生)，也沒有工資，連來回兩程車票，都要自己出，那時地車剛剛漲價，一程要50美仙，現在是兩元了，我慣了早到，那是從香港來，在香港打工沒有遲到那回事，現在就麻煩了，4點多起床，6時到這裡。</p>
<p>問：你現在住在那裡？</p>

<p> 趙：現在住長島事多吉 (Setauket)，（Stony Brook）附近，快者1小時1刻，但塞車要4小時半才到。</p>
<p>問：你那時在唐人街居住嗎？</p>
<p>趙：那時我住布朗士(Bronx)，因為我要學做企枱，那是爸爸的一位同事早移民來，住在布朗士，替我們租了一個柏文。所以坐車一天一元，他們事先聲明：「你來這裡，我們不付你工資，你到來的早、午、晚餐可以一起吃，我教你如何收碗，如果學得好，我教你接單。」在致美樓我學了一個月，做了一星期後有位亞叔就跟我說：「亞弟，我不理人們怎樣，總之如果你做得好，幫得我手，我就給你一元，不用蝕車費。」所以我做了一個月，一共收了21元，是這位亞叔給的，他現在也在唐人街。做完一個月後，他們說，你算得上學會了，不用再來了。有一位蔣先生問：「你要不要做替工？我有三天替工，你要不要做？」我說：「好」。</p>
<p>　　　　以前在唐人街待應生的態度很差，碗是擲過來的，砰砰嘭嘭，沒有茶他們不會添，我雖然做了一個月，我覺得不應該，我排碗排得快，收碗收得快，斟水斟得快，換水換得快，總之什麼也是Prefect，還有一個笑話，當時我是替工又是生手，搵不到錢，又要幫助，他們不會和你打共產(小費平分)，只是叫你分到內堂裡面做，你搞掂，他們並將打鐵客(不給小費的客人)分給我。<br>

那位打鐵客人對我的態度很愕然便問：「為什麼你招呼這麼好，又有禮貌，會問候人，會添茶，會收碗。」我回答說：「因為你是這裡的客人，我是這裡的代表，是不是我應好好地招呼你？」他很愕然，「你不知道我不會給貼士？」我說：「這個不重要，你是客人我就要你滿意。你滿意就好了，你感覺舒服，就是我們的期望。」(As long as you enjoy yourself, this is what we are looking for.) 出奇地，結賬時他付20%的貼士(小費)，其他夥計說：「亞弟，你和我們打共產，」世事就是這樣奇，如你是新人他們會恰(欺壓你)，如果有用他們會拉攏你。</p>
<p> 　　後來我做了三日就離開，我相信如我要長做，他們也會讓我留下來。但是我選擇離開，因為我覺得第一，我仍要讀書，第二我覺得一天賺數十元很浪費。因為當時福州人很勤力，可以一日做三班，八小時一班，不睡覺，做到死將錢帶回鄉下用，工作量很驚人。我雖然不能做三班，但大概可以做兩班，但如做唐人工，不能做兩班。</p>
<p>　　　　我起初想讀書，後來又不讀書，因為我走到學校，問讀書要讀多少學分，他們說要讀12個學分。我問一個學分多少錢，他答一個學分120元，我問一日要讀多少學分，他們說一日要讀三個學分，我說：「嘩！我那來這麼多錢讀書，」於是我叫弟妹讀中學，免費的，一年後，算是紐約居民，讀大學也便宜很多。爸爸當時工資只有600元，我對爸爸說，「我為你做工，先還債，等生活環境轉好才算。」我爸爸也答應了，只有他一人做工，維持家計很辛苦，工資只有600元，家庭一個月要300生活開銷，還要還債，欠李太很多錢，那些是很多人的機票錢。我要做兩份工的話，就不能在唐人街做企枱，否則我賺不夠錢。別人說那間那間打工好，我就去碰。</p>
<p>　　<br>
　　
第一間找工叫羅賓餐廳(Reuben)，以前是第一流餐廳，最著名芝士蛋糕 (cheese cake)和羅賓三文治(Reuben sandwiches)。我進去問工，他說：「對不起，我們沒有待應的空缺。」(Sorry, we don’t have any vacancy of a waiter.)我就說：有沒有收碗筷的 ？我也很在行。(How about bus boy？ Bus boy, I will be very good on it too. )</p>
<p>　　　　他說：你願意做收碗筷的，可以的，我們也需要收碗筷的 。(Are you willing to be a bus boy？ That’s okay. You know we need bus boy too.)</p>
<p>　　　　我說：可以，我就做收碗筷的，如果你有機會的時候，請升我做侍應生。(Okay, then I go and work as a bus boy. When you have a chance next time, you will promote me to be a waiter.) </p>
<p>　　　　他說：可以(Okay.)，其實他也不知道你的工作能力，但也敷衍著。他是西班牙裔的部長(captain)。</p>
<p>　　　　不要說中國人有自尊(pride)，外國人亦一樣，西班牙歸西班牙裔，黑人歸黑人、意大利人歸意大利，個個都會互相欺負。我覺得第一，我是新人，什麼都要讓人，如果他們太過份，要欺詐的時候要反抗。我曾經和波多黎各人(Puerto Rican)要交手了，為什麼呢？做 收碗筷的，每人一個站(station)的時候，他會搶你的東西拿去用，一句「借來一用」(Let me borrow it.)。</p>
<p>　　　　我說：無問題，我們是朋友，團結工作，是不是？(No problem. We are friends. We will work together. We should cooperate as a team, right? ) </p>
<p>　　　　但當你沒有的時候，他會說不要碰我們東西。(Don’t touch my stuff.)</p>
<p>　　　　那也是可以的，我們不要吵架。(That’s okay too. We don’t want to fight. )但是下一次，你也不要借用我的東西，我學會你的一招。(Next time, don’t borrow my stuff too. I learnt fast.)</p>
<p>　　　　到下次，你不讓他用，他說：「你說什麼？」(What are you talking about？)一拳就打在我的肚子上。</p>
<p>　　　　我知道要讓人，不要打人，我說：「可以，但不要再打了。」(That’s okay. Don’t do it again.)他說：「打你又怎樣？」(So what？)<br>
　　　　我說：「我給你最後機會，不要再碰我。」(I give you a last chance. Don’t touch me again. ) 他又打一拳。三拳一出，我一個蔡李佛拳打回去，他整個人跌倒地上，他說：「對不起，趙先生。」(Ok, Mr. Chiu, I am sorry.)以後也不敢再欺負我了。</p>

<p> 那是不是犯賤嗎？中國人要忍讓，但不要太過客氣，三次夠了。</p>
<p>問：那時那餐廳是不是只有你一個中國人？</p>
<p>趙：當時有兩個中國人，不，是三個中國人，一個年紀較老，一個和我年紀差不多，我是最小，因為只有19歲，他們很怕事，別人欺負就算了，我不肯，我們要同樣的權利，我們要為華人爭光，有事要出聲，要抱不平。</p>
<p>　　　　除了這個，另外還有一個認為我不夠工夫材能，要和我打，他照搶，我不給，他搶過來，我一搭手，任他怎樣捉我也捉不到，我並施以還擊，讓他動彈不得，他說：「出來，我和你打，」</p>
<p>　　　　我馬上叫部長(captain)出來，我說：是他先惹事，如他要打架，我奉陪，但你要當證人，如他被打死，不是我的錯。(If he wants to fight, I don’t mind. But you will be the witness. If he gets killed, it is not my problem. )他搭手，我一穿，我整件衣服也給他扯開，他是懂功夫的，但我不怕。如果我要打他，我要打到他不能站起來，但我要有證人。部長摑他一耳光，說：「做工想打架，你是不是找死。」就制止了一場戰爭，但他以後不敢碰我。同時，華人有三個，他也另眼相看，不敢惹我們。</p>
<p>　　　　還有一件趣事，一名意大利侍應，做工時手指經常豎立，我說：「為什麼你那麼女兒態？你的手指為何經常豎起？ 」(How comes you are so feminine？ How come your finger always points out？ )</p>
<p>　　　　他說：「不是，我受過傷，手指就這樣豎了起來，是永久的了。」(No, I hurt myself. Doctor said it’s stuck like this, forever. )</p>
<p>　　　　我心想，為什麼外國人這麼笨，這是骨較的問題，我們以前學功夫時也兼學跌打，<br>

可以弄好的，我有心使他復元。我就問他怕不怕痛。</p>
<p>　　　　他說：是的，我不會覺得痛。(Well, Okay I never feel pain.)</p>
<p>　　　　我說：「這一次你會覺得痛，但如你可以，我會處理得好。」(This time you will. but if you can, I can handle it.)</p>
<p>　　　　他說：不要講笑，如你可以醫好我，我會稱你為趙醫生。(Don’t be kidding. If you can fix it for me, I will call you Dr. Chiu.)</p>
<p>　　　　我說：你肯定你不怕痛？(Are you sure you are not afraid of pain？)</p>
<p>　　　　他說：不會，可以的。(No, Okay.)</p>
<p>　　　　我盡人事，我說：給我你的手。(Give me your hands.)這些骨較，如果你曉得去弄的話，你不怕痛，很容易弄好的。</p>
<p>問：這是不是跌打?</p>
<p>趙：我說：「給我你的手，是我的了，不要嘗試和我鬥力。」(Give me your hands. It’s mine Now. Don’t try to fight with me.)</p>
<p>　　　　他很自然，放軟身體，完全給我弄。我轉多兩轉，揉兩揉，一扭。他說：噢，趙醫生，趙醫生！(Oh, Dr. Chiu, Dr. Chiu!)</p>
<p>　　　　後來他每次看見我的時候，他都這樣叫我，他的醫生以為不可醫治的症，其實很容易，拉直，拉開，放回原位。我叫他一有空，就握著，生實了就無事。有些小事為他做，讓人尊敬，無問題，他永遠都會記得你。</p>
<p>　　　　在那裡的趣事，不要叫人歧視自己，有人說時時被其他人歧視，(I am always discriminated by others. )我說：「不，你不會被歧視，沒有人可以歧視你，這是美國。」(No, if you don’t discriminate yourself, nobody would discriminate against you. This is America.)</p>
<p>　　　　我曾經試過在地車(subway)，有個白人老人，我原本很尊老敬賢，但他說：你這骯髒的中國豬佬，不要坐在我的旁邊。(You dirty Chink pig. Don’t sit next to me.)</p>
<p>　　　　我說：你以為你是誰，你這骯髒的豬！(What the hell you think you are. You dirty pig! )就一屁股撞回去。他當堂嚇至動也不敢動。</p>
<p>　　　　我說不要歧視任何人，每個人都是平等的。(Don’t try to discriminate anybody. Everyone is equal. )</p>

<p> 　在美國，我真的好像沒有被人歧視我，我會以牙還牙，如果你用開玩笑的口吻對我，我會以開玩笑的口吻回敬你，如果你認為不可以回敬，你就是歧視我，你會好麻煩，我會由此跟進下去。所以很多人對我很尊敬。尤其有些人認為他是至高無上的，沒有這樣的事。美國是伸張民主的國家，我要他們做到貼貼切切。</p>
<p>問：做完Reubin餐館後，你還做過什麼？</p>
<p>趙：當時我爸爸需要人到郊區幫他的老闆發展開新舖，問我要不要幫他忙，因我十一歲時，爸爸就到日本工作，所以我很少機會與他生活在一起，所以我說可以，我希望和爸爸在一起，那時雖然我在Reubin一星期賺到300多元，我到他老闆的餐館工作祇有二百底薪每一月，連小費祇有一仟，我還是答應跟他去。後來因為Reubin的工人做事太髒亂，又因為老闆是意大利人，以為自己大過一切，終於被衛生局關閉…。很是遺憾。</p>
<p>　　　　</p>
<p>問：你在Reubin做了多久？</p>
<p>趙：我做了差不多有六個月。我記得我見到有侍應生空缺的時候，我問他，但他沒有給我，反而給了他自己人，我覺得他講過的話不算數。所以爸爸問我要不要去，我說去。</p>
<p>　　　　我們倆父子本來打算來美開餐館，他主廚房，我主餐樓，我們在香港買了很多裝飾餐館的物品，移民時帶來，整整有十四箱木箱行李，船運過來，因我認識船公司，他們來幫我們釘裝，幫我們執拾好。艇家沒有收我們錢，因德信行生意不錯，他們對我有禮遇(courtesy)。<br>

在美國收貨，很容易，在香港做入口可以，為什麼在美國不可以？照樣問，自己清關，將貨搬回家來，那時請唐人街貨運幫我搬。</p>
<p>　　　　我和爸爸到Port Washington幫人開餐館，由sketch開始(從零開始)，我教他們，由寫菜譜(set up menu)到管理(management)，爸爸教老闆做廚，我教老闆兒子做餐樓。之後他們懂得後，爸爸到麻州又幫助別人開新舖，爸爸在Port Washington收取月薪800元，在麻省也是取800元，我則由每月由1500元，去到那裡取1000元。就算少了工資也願意，因為我想和爸爸在一起，既可彌補父子的感情，又可以照顧爸爸。後來他自己到波士頓，他們只要廚師，我就回去紐約Rubin，見到它關了門，同事說就快開門，因為富敦經理(Fulton)和衛生局對罵，以為自己大過任何人， 誰不知官員一貼紙，整間餐館要關門，要清理後才可以重開，後來我幫他們開門，但其後生意一落千丈，差到不得了，一星期左右，爸爸問我：「這裡有個缺，你來不來？」我說好，就去，到麻省(諾盛頓市)Lexington，在北京園 (PEKING GARDEN) 那裡幫手做企枱。</p>
<p>　　　　還有一段古，到華盛頓高地(Washington Heights)坐內陸(Continental巴士) 到波士頓 （Boston），等候巴士時曾差不多被打劫。我意欲避他，他卻逼近我，我蓄勢待發，幸虧巴士到站，我連隨跳上客車，避過一劫。</p>
<p>　　　　我曾被劫兩次，第一次在1971年在致美樓做企枱，早上等致美樓開門，三個黑人，很肥很高大，扼我的頸，想拖我去樓梯邊，我雖然個子小，但很靈敏，我一盤手擋(block)回去，他在我前面，我鬆出來，扎馬準備還要打，他們卻說：「只是開開玩笑！」(Oh, just for fun.)，我覺得很奇怪，原來他們眼見前面有個警察站在我後面不遠處，我就對警察說：「這些人想打劫我！」(These people want to mob me.)<br>

警察卻說：「他們還沒有做什麼呢？」(They didn’t do anything yet.)我很激氣，叫「打劫！打劫！」卻沒有人理會，我很激氣，為什麼中國人不幫中國人？為什麼不團結起來？為什麼讓人欺負？這三個人一直盯著我，但沒有用，因為致美樓開門，我就進去做工，之後也沒有再見他們。</p>
<p>　　　　很多時華人很多時被打劫，沒有人敢出聲，因為沒有自己的地位，以前在華人社區，根本上沒有人理會 (care for) 你。垃圾一大堆，污糟辣塌。更有人說華人愛拿救濟的身份，所以愛骯髒，但如果是真的話，華埠不會這麼繁榮，又增多了許多人。除了9/11以後慘很多，但比起32年前，華人能夠自強不息，什麼都自力更生，看看孔子大廈、且林士果廣場 (Chatham Square) 、且林士果．格林 (Chatham Green)、嘉華銀行，永明大廈都是好例子，是自己建築的，在顯利街 (Henry St.) 就有亨通大廈，陸續下去，華人本身有一個階段經濟飽和的時間。是的，9/11 害到華人很慘，故此中華公所、福建僑團、客屬僑團一起出來，一起推廣，希望能夠重新繁榮華埠。</p>
<p>問：那時華埠是怎樣的？</p>
<p>趙：那時華埠很破爛，不若現在旺，32年從一個很陋習的地方發展為一個衛星城市，如不相信可走一走勿街 (Mott)、百老匯(Broadway)、東百老匯(East Broadway)，格蘭(Grand)街，賣菜、賣魚、賣肉、禮物店，是的，在9/11之後是差了一大截，9/11之後的兩三倍就是9/11之前的景象。當然，將來一直繁榮華埠，如更加見效，很需要聯邦政府，州政府，大家合作，作為一個團隊(as a team)，他們一起來這裡，那華埠會很好，也需要哈曼頓下城發展公司(LMDC)、我愛紐約(I Love New York)、帝國州發展局(Empire State)等一直幫忙，<br>

是的，人力財力可能不足，我的看法是羊毛出在羊身上，不要說要拿很多救濟，我們要想幫到多些，以華人的精神，自強不息，自力更生，夥同 (partner) 一起作團隊 (as a team)，完滿地將華人的地位提升。</p>
<p>　　　　亦看到官員由漠不關心到更多關心華埠，因為人口多了，我們要多謝新移民，很相信如果不是人口多了，也不會有這些多政客垂青華埠。希望大家要新舊移民混合一起，團結一致，搞好社區，使社區更安定繁榮，和政府更多幫助這社區。</p>
<p>(Side 2 of tape)<br>
問：趙先生，我知道你有很多生意，9/11對你生意有什麼影響？</p>
<p>趙：我在美國32年，我在華埠正式做事在這二十年，為什麼有10年不在華埠，甚至在華埠沒有發展生意？因為開始時華埠地方爛，人丁少，被欺負、被打劫時沒有人理會你，覺得是一個很冷酷的地方，不喜歡到。</p>
<p>　　　　那時和爸爸到麻省(Massachusetts)，那裡也有唐人街，沒有這一邊旺，很少華人餐館，我們在美國兩年，便還清爸爸的債務，又從新借貸，建立我們的將來。在朋友的介紹下，也是幫我們租屋的鄭伯伯，在Setauket開一家外賣餐館，爸爸主內，我主外，主理樓面及銀櫃(counter)。我想這都是命運的安排，<br>

因為中國餐在近郊(suburb)不很流行，要慢慢介紹(educate)，感謝神(Thank God)因我懂英文，我去介紹和解釋。</p>
<p>　　　　但剛剛開始時，爸爸因心臟病過世，他在美國不足三年就過世了。當時店中的重任放在我的身上，我要主外又要主內，本身起初時，不會煮菜，在香港明愛青年中心，曾做籌款，有幾度菜做得不錯，是爸媽教導的。在這裡，跟了爸爸一段時候，不是完全懂得煮，在美國沒有人，除了爸爸幾個好朋友以外，什麼人也不認識，什麼都要自己去闖，咬緊牙關，第一做到自力更生。在美國30年來，爸爸的宗旨是希望我們接受美國教育，將來有些前途，第二希望發展比在香港好，由於這兩點，30年來，由最困難的時候，我沒有接受過政府一毛錢的救濟，政府也提供 (offer) 過，但我們沒有接受，因為不是為拿這些，因為要自己奮鬥，爸爸說，自己做出來的事物，吃得特別甜。我一直抱著這個宗旨。</p>
<p>　　　　媽媽因為爸爸很早過世，傷心欲絕，她只能在旁邊看著我們，很難做工。我媽媽很早嫁給爸爸，跟他到上海，兩年不足，到香港，生了我。在1960年八、九歲時，我爸爸到日本八年，等於我媽媽見爸爸的時間也不是太多。到美國以後，媽媽以為可以跟爸爸團聚，雖然說我們是很幸福的家庭，但來到這裡也有不幸的事發生，就是爸爸早逝。</p>
<p>　　　　美國雖然有保險，但我們違反這規條，我們中國人覺得不吉利，不喜歡聽這些東西，只會自保，<br>

我們早期未能領會這點，直至我做這間餐館，保險公司的經理是我餐館的客戶，他問：「為什麼不見那個肥佬 (他不知道是我爸爸) 煮東西？」提起這些傷心的事情，我說他是我們的爸爸，已經過世。他說：「噢！對不起，噢，有沒有買人壽保險呢？」(Oh, sorry. Oh, does he have any life insurance?) 我說沒有，我們不相信這些，他問：「為什麼不買?」(Why not?) 我說在香港很多人沒有這些興趣，不信這些。我們再談話講及這些理念及理想，他就講了一句，令我覺得好似被打了一大拳，他說：「如果你和爸爸都相信這些保險，又買了一份，最起碼他可以實現他的理想，而你可以做些你喜歡的事情。」這句說話擊中我的要害。我問：「但是，誰會知道你們的保險，真正有得賠償？」他亦很客觀地說，我亦不要你馬上相信我的話，你可以抽時間下來我的公司，自己查證一下，聽下及問下。我覺得有理由，我就去他公司查問了三個月，然後同意去考保險師牌照。</p>
<p>　　　　當時有30多個學生，好像只有我一個有問題，我的問話很刁鑽，由頭問到腳，我每次都說：「可能我蠢一點，但我不明白，希望你能解釋給我聽。」導師說：「你不蠢，其實你是最聰明的一個，個個你以為他們明白，但他們扮懂，但其實不懂(pretend that they know but they don’t.)」於是30多人之中只有3個考到牌，包括我。導師(trainer)說，我不是告訴過你嗎？ (Did I tell you something？)我說他說得對。(You are right.)其他都肥佬 (不合格)，三個考到之中，只有我一個做了30年。人生真的很難說。</p>
<p> 　　我忘記起初的問題是什麼？</p>
<p>問：我是問，你覺得唐人街的變化？</p>
<p>趙：唐人街的變化從很多酒鬼在包厘到現在一個酒鬼都沒有；從一兩萬元至幾千元可以買到一座樓，到現在幾百萬元起；<br>

變化相當大，從幾家美國銀行，到現在華人開的銀行及外資進來的銀行，以這樣小的地方，在這麼多的銀行，是很少見的。所以說，華埠的變化不大，那是不對的。</p>
<p>　　　　華埠將來當然更加好，但我們需要聯邦政府、州政府、市政府來和我們一起工作，(work as a team)來華埠幫手，華埠才可以重建，才能夠做得更加好。我們發覺到政府都是有這種心意，希望華埠的商家，能夠和所有願意和華埠合作的人，將華埠的精要點，完全可以上到網頁(internet)，讓我們的子孫見到，可以在華埠看到我們的輝煌歷史，在慘淡的時候，看到我們的掙扎，奮鬥；和他們做生意，讓他們明白中國人的文化，給好榜樣給外國人看，</p>
<p>問：你是否早期華埠第一個經營保險(insurance)的人？</p>
<p>趙：可以這麼說，我在1974年爸爸過世，1975年4月28日開始和紐約人壽正式簽約，在福州人當中，只有倆人，我是其中之一。當時簽約以為做20年，便可以退休，其實沒有可能退休，拿到資深代理（Senior Nylic Agent）好難將客戶棄之不理，唯有再做，30年拿到高級拿到資深代理（Post Senior Nylic Agent），但做到那時，更難將客戶棄之不理，所以，要做到死的一天為止。</p>
<p>問：你覺得9/11對保險業的影響如何？</p>
<p>趙：9/11對保險業影響很大，除了紐約人壽保險以外，因公司批准我，可以做商業保險，及家庭房產保險，所以我也銷售物業及傷亡、家居、責任，及保証險(property and casualty, homeowner, liability and bonds)。除紐約人壽外，投資、共同基金、退休基金(investment, mutual fund、IRA)、連車、屋、布、廠房、車衣廠、工傷保險，工病保險、別人需要的保証險(bonds)，我全部都有。20年前，到華埠，第一個地方租永明大廈，十年以後，租宰也(Doyers)街11號，到現在來到這一邊。</p>

<p> 為什麼中間少了一段時間？因為我在外州及石溪 (Stony Brook) 附近的事多吉（Setauket）做餐館。</p>
<p>　　　　為什麼我又做保險？因為我的爸爸到美不足三年就去世了，一毛錢保險都沒有。經理跟我說：「你知不知道和你一樣的華人，需要你的幫助，告訴他們保險的好處？」我由那裡開始，到今日為止，我都本著服務的宗旨，希望將這一個好消息及好處分給華人，除了民主之外，還要有保障，所謂有保障，就是家人所有的尊嚴不能給其他人侵佔傷害，因為一家之主或兩個主力做楝樑，支持家中主要收入者，萬一其中一個或兩個不在，他們仍然如印錢機器，不停地印，使家人有生活保障，如果這人不在，好像機器壞了，要有人幫你印錢，那就是紐約人壽燕梳（保險），所以家家擁有最好，對他們就有很好的保障。如沒有事，更好，因為裡面有很多錢積聚，作退休補助之用，我們有很多客戶，退休時拿出來的錢比退休金還多，退休金只有幾百元，他們有30年的保險，他們聽我講可以做到無憂米，他們的晚年現在生活得很好。</p>
<p>問：9/11對保險業的影響如何？</p>
<p>趙：9/11對保險業影響，尤其是物業及傷亡科(p&c，property and casualty)影響重大，因為9/11倒塌後的樓宇，付出的要賺回來，很多人因為生意做不來，保險費又貴，有些人說：「現在食也保不住，如何保，不保了，搏一搏，做得不來就關門。」生意難做，因為保費貴，貴就寧願不買了。</p>
<p>問：比9/11之前貴了多少？</p>

<p> 趙：貴很多，兩三年漲的保險費升了40至50%，每年升10至20%，加起來要40至50%，因為損失了的錢始終要取回，籌集(recruit) 所有的錢，所以生意不好做，但，是不是完全沒有了？那又不是，在別的地方補回來。如人壽保險反而好做，因為人們清楚明白，無端端不可預知的，我當時預備過橋，看著它一直倒塌，好慘，眼淚一直留下來，覺得沒有可能，但是發生了。</p>
<p>問：9/11發生時，你在那裡？</p>
<p>趙：我在橋頭，因為有消息不准過，因為那天要早出去，不然不會這麼早出去。當不能過橋的時候，我打電話到五分局問他們需不需要翻譯，譬如華埠很多人不懂英文，人們不知道發生什麼事，告訴人們要不要走，要他們走避。我一直打電話，但到下午六時都沒有人接電話，為什麼呢？因為每個人都在外面搶救人，已經沒有人接電話，真好像戰亂，完全失去消息，有幸入不了唐人街，因為有兩三天都不能出來，起碼有兩三個星期才准去唐人街，而且要帶證件。</p>
<p>問：你覺得9/11事件如何？</p>
<p>趙：我覺得民主是好的，但是太民主是一個禍害，為什麼可以這樣說？因為恐怖份子能夠從容犯罪，為什麼可以搬石頭打自己的腳？就是因為美國太民主，以致很多剛做事新興的年青人，因為相信很大部份航空業的從業員都是年青人，<br>

他們無憂無慮，吃得好，住得好，教育好，最緊要享受，平日做工，你可以看見他們傾偈，天南地北。取工資應該要做事，而不是談話，講笑，就是因為這班人，他們讓恐怖份子劫了飛機也不知道，走了一小時才撞進世貿中心。反映美國政府及美國國民制度需要檢討，如果不能像華人般自強不息，不鼓勵自己做得更好，而苟且偷安，則遲早有事發生。不要怪布殊(Bush)有情報不知，不要怪克林頓(Clinton)做得不好，反而要學約翰．甘迺迪(J.F. Kennedy)，不要問國家可以給你什麼，你要問你有什麼可以貢獻給國家？我們本身要貢獻自己本身的能力，搞好華埠，9/11雖然很殘酷，但如果個個人都有這份心力，華埠必定興起碼多一半以上。</p>
<p>　　　　如果你不同意，你可以看看，以新華僑為計，你可以去東百老匯看看，9/11之後，華埠有沒有沉過？你可以去看看，要做的，不單是東百老匯(East Broadway)簡單，別的地方也很重要，你說珠寶行業、禮品行業、餐館行業，如果沒有外面的人來到這裡，華埠就很傪了。</p>
<p>　　　　再說回來，哥倫布公園地底亭車場計劃，如有辦法，可以有多層地底的停車場，六、七、八層，等他們有地底停車場，有幾千輛車可得到這裡的泊車位，他們才可以多來，不會憂慮有沒有地方泊車，不會憂慮是否付得起車費，讓華埠變成購物天堂，食品天堂。更多人來華埠，華埠絕對可以興起。</p>
<p>　　　　現在政府已研究在那裡做，哥倫布公園(Columbus Park)已放在名單之內，希望能夠成功通過，以哥倫布公園為一個，我夠膽說：華埠的泊車(parking)、聯邦政府、州政府、市政府的公務員的泊車(parking)，完全可以不需擔心，沒有爭議。我們做事，一定要做要一針見血，不要馬虎，張冠李戴，其實很多事做得不對。我覺得哥倫布泊車(Columbus Parking) 一層可以泊到300至400輛車，如果全面興建停車場七、八、九、十層，<br>

可以泊三至四千輛車，華埠還可以載更多人，可以增建，生意可以更加好做，泊車費可以比較便宜，反正是一處地方，經濟可以做了，公園(park)一樣可以做，變不變是地底的建設，以今天的科技可以做得到。</p>
<p>問：何時可以落實這計劃？</p>
<p>趙：計劃正在研究中，我是哈曼頓下城發展公司(LMDC)顧問團其中一個顧問，已經開了兩次會，在四月會公佈，以繁榮華埠為目的，希望這次他們能夠順利通過，將來會做很多公共關係(public relations)，搞很多活動(events)，已經有整套計劃，其實明早十時又要開會了，其中有時都會談論這方面的事情。</p>
<p>問：趙先生，除了保險業，你還有很多生意，可不可以談談？</p>
<p>趙：不單是我的生意，就以旅遊業來說，9/11以後，幾乎全部要倒閉，當時是團隊(team work)的開始，很多批發商(wholesaler)互相支持，互相關懷；有很多已經關門，沒有生意；如分散很多地方，也不能做。我們家族的旅行社沒有生意，因為沒有人出埠，到現在才陸續有些，有些訂酒店、租車、去旅遊，國內仍不是很多。<br>
　　　　將來是否復甦仍屬未知素。尤其是航空公司將會壟斷，不需要用到第三者經理(agent)作媒介，將會有一個層次被淡出(phase out)，只有很少剩下來，不像現在這麼多，因為根本沒有辦法維持生計。</p>

<p> 問：那末，你自己的六鳳旅行社在那裡？</p>
<p>趙：其實我們只有一個辦公室，什麼生意都包攬。在以前就會分開部門，現在只有一間，將開支減少才有辦法生存。我們也不習慣申請什麼經費(funding)，我們覺得可以掂就掂，不成功就關門。</p>
<p>問：其實9/11對你們的打擊有多大？</p>
<p>趙：9/11的打擊令旅遊業幾乎完全沒有生意，因為只有熟客，做少少，比較以前差得很遠。</p>
<p>問：旅遊的套餐(package)主要是國內的嗎？</p>
<p>趙：國內幾乎都沒有人去遊覽了。外面來的人又說反非典(SARS)，又說防恐，很多簽證不成，來不到美國。反而新僑取得綠卡，回鄉或返港，就有些生意，否則根本不會有生意。</p>
<p>問：你從事旅遊的生意，有三十多年嗎？</p>
<p>趙：旅遊生意，從1971年開始做，做到現在，起初剛到的時候，只做了一陣子，後來來到這一邊，在長島的事多吉(Setauket)做，到後來買了回來，我們到華埠時，也沿用Setauket Travel，因為Setauket是鄉下名，中文名則叫六鳳，為什麼叫六鳳？ 因為六鳳是我爸爸出生的家鄉，中文名不變，後到在華埠就英文名叫「華埠旅遊」(Chinatown Travel)。</p>

<p> 問：依你所見，現在的華埠是否旅遊業的谷底？</p>
<p>趙：現在是華埠旅遊業的最低潮，是掙扎求存的時候，團結很重要，如大家肯辛苦些，艱苦經營，希望有個生機，否則真的不容易了。</p>
<p>問：除此之外，你還有什麼生意？</p>
<p>趙：出入口，9/11時我做過海蜇頭，但是貨停滯，不能賣出，我的損失很嚴重。貨存在倉裡，不能賣，要倒掉，苦不堪言。做這一門生意，如果客人不付錢，我們就不再取貨，我們就再不入這項貨品，所以幾乎沒有得做。</p>
<p>問：為什麼這行入口食品特別受影響？</p>
<p>趙：因為9/11後，餐館業蕭條，人們的收入受影響，經濟蕭條，誰會吃這些奢侈品？海蜇頭算是奢侈品，很貴$7,8,9,10一包，劣質的才賣$3。</p>
<p>問：當時損失多少？</p>
<p>趙：實質的損失有數十萬，血本無歸，要付倉租，其他的錢已付出，不能取回，損失很慘重。</p>
<p>問：你有這麼多不同的生意，9/11對你是否很大的打擊？</p>

<p> 趙：正式來說，對任何人都是一個很大的打擊，對我來說亦是一個打擊，幸好有保險行業可以保存，算是苟延殘喘。</p>
<p>問：趙先生，你是福州人，以前來的福州人和現在的福州人有甚麼分別，或者現在在大陸的福州又如何？</p>
<p>趙：現在福州人和以前的福州人有很大的分別。1971年來，你會認得到那些是這裡的人，那些是走船來的人，他們10個中有9個半是蓋著頭，左顧右盼，低下頭，我不忍心他們給別人認出來，我會拍拍他們的肩膊，嚇他們一大跳，我和他先講廣東話，如果他不曉得回答，我就用小時候學的不純正的福州話跟他們說，如發覺真是福州鄉里，我就提醒：「你不要這樣一縮一縮走路，你這樣縮頭縮尾，人們會知道你走船，會有人拘捕你，像我這樣走路，就沒有人會拉你。」我敢說，很多人都會記得我這樣說過。哈哈。</p>
<p>問：以前偷渡為什麼這樣容易？</p>
<p>趙：其實也不是這般容易，因為以前的海員有通行證(pass)，他們用通行證上了岸就不回去，所以叫跳船，以前除了這個方法之外，也沒有很多其他方法，所以大部份都是跳船來。因為他們在裡面做工，作為一個水手或一個海員(as a seaman, sailor or as a crew)，或者在廚房幫手，運貨等，所以等來到美國時逃走，就不返回去船。很少在船上跳入海，然後游泳，入來，並不是這個意思。</p>
<p>　　　　就像留學生，到美國後，覺得都是在美國好，就找人擔保，不回去。或旅遊來，做生意覺得在美國好，<br>

都留下來，不回去。其實都是其中一個轉變身份的方法，或者你或是很有錢，可以旅遊簽證入境，或做生意取綠卡，也好，也沒有錯。(It’s good. Nothing wrong with that.) 如果是其他人，沒有這麼優厚的條件，變了用適合自己的方法。</p>
<p>　　　　那我是否反對任何一個非法入境的人？其實不然，因為美國人本身都是偷渡入境，侵佔他人的國境，才成為一個美國。任何一個土生土長的人，認為移民是不對的、是犯法，是應該制裁的，那是不對的，就好像摑自己一下耳光，除非他們是紅印第安人。任何一人都不應該反對，否則他們今天就不應該在這裡了。</p>
<p>　　　　但我們應有一個方法，幫助他們行正軌，因為有一少部份新移民到美國作奸犯科，危害華人或公眾安全，我們亦見到有些華人被欺壓、凌辱、暗殺、謀殺。如果我們能夠團結一起，互相幫助，我們的力量就會很大，為什麼呢？我們華人人口越多，將來票數越多，將來政客就會替我們做得好，更加體貼入微。如果大家互相殘殺，互相排斥的話，我們所得到的，只會被政客利用。我們需要官員做我們的公僕，為我們服務，他們出來代表我們華人，也要真真正正為我們服務。否則，我們沒有發生作用。</p>
<p>問：趙先生，這麼多年來，你一定回去福州看過，你的感覺又如何？</p>
<p>趙：我回福州看過，我在1980年，即十年之後，第一次經香港去福州，因我媽媽辛辛苦苦，跟爸爸回福州來到香港，來到美國，也未返回過福州，直至1977年，她回去。我沒有錢，到銀行借錢讓她回去看看她的父母，一償她的宿願。然後，我媽媽希望她的父母來美國玩，1980年我返去福州帶他們到廣州簽證，帶他們經香港來美國。來到這裡，<br>

終於我外公問我媽媽一句，「如果我死了，你會如何處置我的遺體？」我媽媽說：「如果你喜歡，你在這裡陪我的丈夫。」外公說：「不可以，這裡太靜，我要回去。」媽說：「你不用現在趕著回去，你留在這裡，我答應你如你百年歸老，我送你回去。」外公說：「如果到時你不送我回去，我又怎樣？我在那裡比較熱鬧些，」他堅持一定要返回中國，他說我們落地歸根也是好的。老人家已經80多歲，留在這裡，只望著天，對著四度牆，雖然我們住在二層歐式住宅 (colonial) ，家中也不算小，有前後花園走動，但老人家也不習慣。他便和我外婆回去，兩年之後，我外公他老人家過身了，已經是90多歲。我和媽媽回去為他做喪事，那時我正在外州(西維吉尼亞州 West Virginia) 公司為我們召開最高層會議，也要向公司請假趕回來，陪媽媽到中國辦喪事，事後再回來美國。現在我外婆仍健在，她亦來過美國2,3次，她又覺得悶，又回去中國。</p>
<p>　　　　返回去說在1980年見到福州的情形，可以講，由香港踏入廣州我一直在哭，為什麼？因為中國當時很慘，灰塵滾滾，什麼都沒有，我想：中國這樣窮，為什麼不會讓人看扁？到上海日日擠車，12公里可以開車兩小時也到不了目的地，我步行也應該到。覺得很落後，很慘。</p>
<p>　　　　下到福州，風一吹，黃沙滾滾，樓宇又爛，什麼都沒有，中國真的很慘，那是在1980年。</p>
<p>　　　　1982年回去就開始看見轉變，1984年因為要為外公辦喪事。1983年代表這裡的社區捐錢辦龍舟比賽，鼓吹體育，組團回去，又不同了。每次回福州都看見轉變，去年9月時，到處是高速公路(highway)，到處是天橋，馬路井然有序，樓房高到看不見，看不盡。起初1980年回去時，單車多到你過不了馬路，現在二樓興建行人天橋，<br>

不需要行馬路，在華埠鼓吹的行人天橋，在二樓塔過去，不需要在地面過馬路，車仍然是車水馬龍。二樓還創商機，可以做生意，人們在二樓兼做生意，不單是在樓下，我覺得是好事，這是龐大的計劃，日後有錢還應擴展。</p>
<p>　　　　將來正式要繁榮華埠，也會建議需要這樣的建設。</p>
<p>問：在福州看見這麼繁榮的變化，是不是因為移民回去發展？</p>
<p>趙：不單止是新移民，還有舊移民，回去買樓投資，做生意，也不單是福州市，福州市郊，甚至長樂市，都完全翻新，鄉下地方建設還比城市較多，馬路及高速公路(highway)建設發達，由福州至廈門，現在只需一個鐘頭，以前開車要8個鐘頭，交通發達，樓房多得很，住的人反而比較少。樓價也不會貴下去，因為供不應求才貴，供過於求會跌。</p>
<p>　　　　我曾帶警察團回去中國，他們說：現在我明白了為什麼新移民冒死也來美國，願意滙錢回中國來，寧願來這裡付擔沉重的債務，因為他們在美國捱幾年回去，就可以在鄉下，建三、四層高樓，用的不是紅磚，是漂亮的白磚，並滿舖欄杆，好像有錢人住的地方，很豪華。</p>
<p>問：你做過什麼其他公積？</p>

<p> 趙：其實我做事從來不想過有回報，做完就算。做得較大的，是幫人檢命，是金旅號那回擱淺，浸死十個人，我們在社區以美國福建工商總會的名義，將受害人的屍首領(claim)回來，幫他們入土為安，並找回家屬。有4位很幸運，很容易找到家屬，有名字，有家屬領回。還有六位比較不幸，我們幫他收殮，由五福殯儀館的麥潔明陳太，和應行久太太金玉堂出一萬元，我們出力，五福殯儀館幫手出錢出力，不足之額由五福補貼。做善事很多方法。到現時為止，我們還在找尋死者的家屬。其中一位可能會找到，因為十年以後，華文新聞業朋友找我，再次在報上作呼籲，有家屬來問遺失十年的兒子在那裡，但因為留下的血太少，只有一滴血，而大概需要一方吋才夠化驗遺傳因子(DNA)，不知道可不可以，如果發現是相同，是真正親屬，則可多認一個。</p>
<p>問：金旅號是否大部份是福州人？</p>
<p>趙：大部份是福州人，但發覺也有溫州人，因為第二個來領屍的親屬是溫州人，在認領的時候，移民局還說要拉人，我們說他們沒有人道，後來放了才無事。因為美國有民主政制，說她不民主他們就不舒服，才肯公開(release)十個人的名字，讓人收領出來，當時每一個人要我簽紙才能認領(claim)，因為是我領屍出來的。</p>
<p>問：這宗慘劇對移民有什麼啟示？</p>

<p> 趙：正式來說，讓他們知道，不要以為美國是天堂。每次我回去解釋給他們，他們就當我唱歌，當我是假的。第一，美國是勞改營，無人應每天做工13至14小時，但我在美國32年，我起碼每天做13小時，所以我說美國是勞改營。他們說：「那你又留在美國?」我說：「我沒有辦法。」他們硬是不相信。</p>
<p>　　　　他們說美國是天堂，我說：「美國是天堂，亦是地獄，」如果賺不到錢，你就在地獄，如果賺到錢，在那裡都是天堂，不單在美國是天堂，在中國也是天堂。我說「你們身在福中不知福，現在如果你們不用做事也有得食，在美國沒有做事就沒有得食。」當時沒有人信我，來到這裡，才知道我講的是對的，他們向我說：「如果聽你話就好了，不聽你話就慘了。」</p>
<p>問：金旅事件發生後，在大陸及福州是否會警惕，會比較少人來美？</p>
<p>趙：我想他們掩藏得不錯，沒有很多人知道有金旅號這些事件，因為蓋得密。反而在外國的人就知道，因為在國外的中國朋友在電視看到，我們收殮那些死者，還到沙灘超渡，報紙有報導，所以他們知道。</p>
<p>　　　　我們和社區做的事，最大的有重開格蘭街地車站(Grand Street Station)，到最後，我要求一條巴士線由格蘭街車站(Grand St. Station)到DeKalb Ave. ，不需乘客周圍(到處)走，周圍轉車。最後他們都做到。做曼哈頓橋，本來說要八年的長時間，縮到現在兩年，格蘭街地車站(Grand Street Station)就通車了。所以幫手做的事，都有好的結果。</p>

<p> 至於清潔華埠，我們亦盡一分力，但他不是太見效，我認為我們的華埠應有自己私人的倒垃圾車，在某個時候，如垃圾已經堆滿，應該要完全清理，我覺得多付一點錢也是值得的，使華埠地方更清潔，更多人更樂意來華埠購物。因為首先華埠物價已經便宜。</p>
<p>　　　　補路方面，華埠很多地方爛，東百老匯已經正在轉好，上個月我還投訴，(complain)，因為兩年前撥款已經下來做宰也街及東百老匯的路面，他們還說沒有經費，我說：「你不能說沒有經費，因為聯邦政府已經撥款下來。你說其他理由，我或者可以接受，但不是藉口。」後來真的在一星期後，他們開始動工。希望他們做得好，但我見到他們做的馬路，不是以前做的7吋厚，現在只是做2,3吋，我覺得那是敷衍形式。但他們說，若馬路要全翻時，做法同現在不同。希望他們真的做好，因為東百老匯有兩個地方，時時都下陷，補完又下陷，補完又下陷，如果沒有這情況，就算是替華埠造福。</p>
<p>　　　　除了這些以外，我本人認為，是華埠的泊車位不夠，日日都有人投訴，說公職人員泊佔用泊車位，為什麼不設地底停車場城，有三、四層，讓他們可泊個飽？不會阻地方。<br>
或者做一至三條有自動電梯上落的行人天橋，能在馬路高空架橋讓老人能自己行走，不會阻車，降低老年行人被車碰倒枉死街頭，這會否令華埠繁榮？</p>
<p>問：這計劃何時推出？</p>
<p>趙：我相信哈曼頓下城發展公司(LMDC) 可以說，有七成在我理想中已經做到，我覺得這些是很重要，且是必要的，因為華埠現時和30年前已經完全不同，9/11以後，中國人講一句「今非昔比」，9/11後，比以前差，但要華埠比以前更好，如泊車很重要，如果住的地方也不夠，那有地方泊車？如果我想到華埠，一停車起碼要二、三十元，<br>

倒不如在自己家附近用膳，也不過是數十元。</p>
<p>　　　　我也希望另外一個計劃──第二大道的地車站儘快點建成，盡快開始越好，對繁榮華埠是一個很大幫忙。32年來，我們華埠沒有正式的車站，如在來了華埠是一大方便，在勿街頭（Mott），東百老匯 (East Broadway) 與袙道（Park Row）頭的角落，只要在東百匯、袙道頭地下鑿一個洞在那裡就可以了，地車就在下面，希望能夠越快開就越好，能夠繁榮華埠。</p>
<p>問：趙先生，你當初覺得警民關係不太好，這幾年有沒有轉變？</p>
<p>趙：警民關係這幾年轉變很大，我曾經到警察總局分析華人的心態，不要以為華人和警察對抗，和做警察對華人應該有的禮貌及態度。可能因為這樣，所以我結識了一班警官，和我關係很好，所以我帶他們回國內，他們也發現到大部份的華人都很好，除了一小撮要他們去對付，所以他們對華人的態度已經好了很多。</p>
<p> 　有一次在東百老匯警察捉小販，警察到時，小販走，警察走時，小販再回來，警察一直拘捕不到小販，很激氣，有一名華人警察把小孩子當垃圾般擲入警車，個個華人都嘩然，叫我將警察控告。被捕者很怕，一來沒有身份，二來怕放出來後，不能生存，會被警察逼害。同時，這個警察亦是華人警察，是初次犯事。雖然有人說：「如果不教訓他，他以後更惡，」認為警察很囂張像香港殖民地的警察。<br>
我第一次和他對立時，他當時很激氣，我們不能怪他，因為他當時很激氣，氣上心頭，我也很氣。</p>
<p>　　　　我很平淡跟他說：「我知道你現在很氣，氣上心頭，但我要告訴你，如果你今日擲的是我的兒子，我會拔槍打死你，你做了一些很愚蠢的的事，是警官不應該做的，如果你不道歉，我會令你不好過，所有的記者就在警察局門前面，你要不要在明日的報紙上刊登你的名字，包括紐約時報？你也會失去工作，他說：「好，我就道歉。」他關上門就向當事人一家道歉，他們都向我喝采，我希望和平解決，而不是鬥爭，他知道自己有錯，知錯能改，就是我想做到的，我不想釘死一個人，如使他失業，領救濟，又為了什麼？ 我們要一個好的社區，共同合作，每個人都會犯錯，對不對？<br>
　　(I know you are very mad at this moment and very excited. But let me tell you one thing. If the child you threw is my son, I will pull my gun and shoot you. You are doing something very stupid, not supposed to do by an officer. If you don’t want to say a sorry and apologize for this act. I am going to put you down.” He tried to confront me. I told him, wait a moment, I let you open the door and let you see what kind of weapons we have. All the reporters are at the front door. Do you want me to put you on all the newspaper tomorrow including New York Times? And you will lose your job too. He said, “Alright, I will apologize.” Then he closed the door and apologized to the victim and family. They all greeted at me. I want them to be at peace, not fight. As long as he knows he is wrong. He corrects it. This is what I am looking for. I don’t want to nail one person. And he loses his job and goes for welfare, for what？ We want a good community. We have to work together. Everybody will make some mistakes, right?)</p>
<p>問：那是什麼年份的事？ </p>
<p>趙：這是幾年前的事，現在我們有警民關係，有警少年，我們青少年看見有事，馬上報告，讓警察能夠快點破案，捉人，我們有警察日，社團有贊助參與，聖誕節捐錢給警察局，買禮物送給街坊小孩，打指模、刻印，這都是警民合作的活動。</p>
<p>問：五分局和現在有什麼不同，現在是否同一地點？</p>
<p>趙：地點是一様的，以我所知道五分局30年前已經在這裡，到今日為此，我在裡頭認識一些警長，都很不錯，有幾位對華人很好，<br>
尤其是當奴．力高 (Ronald Lekos) ，他是希臘裔，對華人更加愛護，很幫華人。我們有個陳文業。可能將來有位劉家和(Michael Lau)，我現稱他為劉警長(Captain Lau)，現在警察總局做公共關係科。</p>
<p>問：即是說，你很滿意現時的警民關係？</p>
<p>趙：正式來說，他們可以做得更好，當然亦可能是資金及人力的問題。</p>
<p>問：趙先生，你有小朋友這裡，你對子女的期望如何？</p>
<p>趙：正式來說，中國人說「養兒防老」，但現在不叫養兒防老，叫「作育英才」，希望他們學到東西，加上家庭的教育，能夠知道什麼是中國人的禮法，能夠更上一層樓，所謂「青出於藍勝於藍」，但如果不可以也沒有辦法，因為美國教育很自由民主，甚至過火，你很難能夠令子女完全…。</p>
<p>　　　　我的大兒子在兵咸頓大學(Binghamton University)唸書，他是後備的國民防衛軍(National Guard Reserve)，正在學修理直昇機 (Black Hawk)，因為他有意在軍區當 (crew chief) , 這職位要曉得修理整架直昇機，和使用直昇機內的機關槍。去年教新丁用槍射擊，將來幫到國家也很不錯，亦希望他將來讀書更好。</p>
<p>　　　　我的二兒子唸第一年級，成績也不錯，想做科學家，不為賺錢，希望他能夠做一個出色的科學家，否則也學到一些東西，對將來的家庭及自己有作用。</p>
<p>問：你來美國這麼久，9/11又發生了，你覺得美國怎樣？是不是仍然覺得美國是一個好國家？</p>
<p>趙：美國是一個好好的國家，民主是應該的，但千萬不能過火，小孩子如果太民主或錯用民主，很多事情可以發生，甚至有邪教，非法人士用民主來呃錢，不能坐視不理。見到時要點出來。</p>
<p>問：你還有沒有事情要補充？</p>
<p>趙：我正要反問你有什麼要補充，我太多東西要說，講也講不完，我可以再講三天也可以。</p>
<p>問：譬如你對唐人街有什麼期望？</p>
<p>趙：如果我們要共同相處，一起合作，我們要華埠興旺，「家和萬事興，家衰口不停，」以這個為宗旨，大家團結一致，不要搶你的功勞，我的功勞，大家都有功勞，一個人永遠做不了什麼，以team(團隊)的姿態出現，做事，我相來將來的華埠更加好，希望不需要等30年，相信三五年之內更加好，希望成就能加倍，才能表示到大家團結一致，共創華埠，我深信華埠的光明要靠我們這一群，團結從事，我很相信會做到，並且會很成功。</p>
<p>問：非常謝謝你接受訪問，今天是2004年3月30日。這是美國華人博物館的華埠口述歷 史訪問計劃，訪談者是趙伯銘先生，訪問者是我吳翊菁。</p>
<p>趙：謝謝(Thank you)。</p>
<p>（完）</p>