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                  <text>TomPaine.com -- a liberal advocacy organization -- distributed a public call on August 12, 2002 for 300 word "opinion advertisement" similar to those that the organization had been running regularly in the op-ed page of The New York Times.  TomPaine.com received hundreds of submissions from the public, most of which the September 11 Digital Archive has preserved here.</text>
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              <text>Toward a More Perfect Union 

	Approximately one year ago, on September 11, 2001,
our nation was tested by the evil acts of terrorists
hijackers; however, I ask myself,
What have we learned about our nation since the
tragic events of 9/11?.  After the September 11th
attacks, I have noticed that they have had a major
impact on most people nationally and internationally. 
The events of 9/11 affected everyone in the nation
because we can no longer be sure of how safe our
country really is even though it is the most powerful
nation in the world.  I still can t believe that the
terrorist hijackers hijacked four planes on the same
day.  To make matters worse, they used them on the
symbols of our nations economy and on the symbol of
our nations military power.  The 9/11 events affected
other countries as well, such as Afghanistan and
France.  If it were not for the terrorist attacks, the
U.S. wouldnt have attacked Afghanistan, and
Afghanistan wouldnt have been freed from Al Qaida
rule.  France, on the other hand, was affected because
ever since the 9/11 attacks, the tourism rate
decreased by about 8.6%.  Before the attacks tourism
was at approximately 11.6 million people, which means
that after 9/11, tourism decreased by approximately 1
million people.  Our nations largest companies have
received the biggest impact because they have either
collapsed (like Enron and World.com), gone corrupted,
or had to lay off many people to help its business. 
It is really disappointing that we cant trust our
nation s financial leaders because of the fear that
even they will collapse and with them would go our
money.  A year ago we watched these tragic events, and
we shall remember that we lived through the worst
events in American history.
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                <text>San Benito High School&#13;
Assigned by John Hand&#13;
English 4</text>
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              <text>THE AFTERMATH AND THE NATION


The continued exploitation of  9/11's tragedy demeans the memory of those 
who died. One wonders if instead of happening in New York and Washington, 
D.C., the videotaped events had occurred off-camera to kill 3000 people in 
(say) Great Falls, Montana. Would the nation have reacted in the same 
obsessive way?
	Predictably politicians and advertisers make hay of 9/11 for political and 
financial gain, endlessly calling up the photographs, sounds, memories and 
attaching them to everything under the sun. Unaccountable anger was already 
gnawing at the American public's psyche fueled by vicious talk radio, 
mocking ""comedians,"" self-centered politicians before the disaster. So when 
the planes accomplished their evil mission, it gave an excuse to unleash 
and focus this anger, opening floodgates to set the nation on a Bash 
Everybody Who Gets In Our Way retaliation.
	Immediately after President Bush addressed the nation shortly after 9/11, 
this writer heard a reporter ask an administration spokesman how long the 
""war"" on terror would likely last. The response, ""Five years.""
	Now, invoking the memories of those who perished, the American public is 
called upon to give up important rights, supposedly the better to fight 
terrorists. But if the so-called ""war"" is open-ended, then the abrogation 
of those rights will continue for what?
Forever? Did the victims give their lives so America would be less free, 
made so not by terrorists but by our own fear-mongering ambitious national 
leaders, assisted by a national press involved in a ratings game?

F.D.R. had it partly right: one thing we have to fear is "fear itself." But we should also be afraid of what we're doing to ourselves and our nation.
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              <text>"Toward a more perfect union","  

The totality of the thrust of all government and corporate actions since/before 9-11 are not designed to solve foreign or domestic issues but to fight them.  I believe that when you fight a problem, you are hiring people and spending money and your fame and fortune grows.  If the problem is solved, then you have to fire people; you receive less money; your power and influence diminishes.  This one fact alone is the reason fighting the issue takes on a life all its own and becomes self-perpetuating.  Therefore, it boils down to:  The greatest fortune and the most fame comes NOT from solving problems but from fighting one wee facet of the problem while spreading Hate, Havoc, Hypocrisy and Fear in the aftermath of unresolved issues. 

ALL governments are control freaks.  The appointed bureaucrats/officials are worse than the elected officials.  Adding non-accountability to those appointed/elected officials when they wrong the citizen and then not giving the people any recourse against those same officials, is leading this nation to disaster.

Case in point:  Homeland Defense.  Hitler combined the military, the police and the intelligence agency into a Fatherland Defense Force called the GESTAPO.  The parallels between these two organizations are more than scary. 

Summation:  The two most powerful and controlling emotions in society are fear and patriotism.  Combining these two emotions, we have the media blitz we have today.  Two powerful personal emotions are Agony and Despair -- AKA the Gatekeepers Of Hell.  When a person has nothing to lose, that person cannot be controlled; therefore, he must be killed or locked up.  Homeland Defense will make our constitution stink because it will be used as toilet paper by those in-charge.  There is no enemy more tenacious and dedicated to your destruction than the one you make in your own home
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                  <text>The Madison Area Peace Coalition (MAPC) formed fourteen days after the September 11 attacks to oppose (among other goals) the use of U.S. military, economic, or political force – whether direct or proxy, overt or covert -- "that violates the sovereignty or human rights of any nation or people." The Archive has assembled here e-mails exchanges from MAPC dating from the group's founding until late November 2001.</text>
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Senate passed S1510--the USA Act--yesterday 96-1 vote.  Wisconsin Senator
Russ Feingold was the only dissenting voice...


_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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              <text>288 Xs

DIRECTIONS: PLEASE COPY this email onto a new message, sign the bottom 
and forward it to everyone on your distribution list. If you receive this 
list with more than 300 names on it, please email a copy of it to: &gt; 
X 
Even if you decide not to sign, please be considerate and do not kill the 
petition. 
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I have put the minutes from Sunday on the cc wiki page.  It would facilitate
approval next Sunday if everyone could read them and bring
corrections/changes with them.

exhausted but energized (if that makes sense),
X
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              <text>[MAPC-coord] minutes from Sunday</text>
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Either way works for me on the first paragraph.

The other paragraph you quoted seems to have a redundancy:

"The Coordinating Committee is empowered to make emergency decisions for
MAPC." and "The Coordinating Committee has the right to make emergency
decisions when necessary."

X


----- Original Message -----
From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
To: &lt;coordination@madpeace.org&gt;
Cc: &lt;X&gt;; &lt;X&gt;
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: [MAPC-coord] cc mission for approval, gm agenda


&gt; X,
&gt;
&gt; Thanks for doing this. I would change the first paragraph to the following
&gt; for readability:
&gt;
&gt; The main decision-making body of MAPC is the General Meeting. (moved this
&gt; next sentence forward from end of paragraph; seemed to flow better) The
&gt; Coordinating Committee ensures that the decisions of the General Meetings
&gt; are implemented. The General Meeting sets the politics and the overall
&gt; direction of MAPC.  The Coordinating Committee takes its direction from
the
&gt; General Meeting, and is accountable to the (deleted general) membership.
All
&gt; decisions made by the Coordinating Committee are subject to discussion and
&gt; review by the General Meeting.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is empowered to make emergency decisions for
&gt; MAPC.  An emergency decision consists of responding appropriately to
rapidly
&gt; changing current events, or of initiating the coordination of plans that
are
&gt; under time constraint. The Coordinating Committee has the right to make
&gt; emergency decisions when necessary.  Emergency decisions will be reported
&gt; back to the General Meeting
&gt;
&gt; I'll print, but would need to know tonight about content so that I can do
it
&gt; between work tomorrow &amp; the meeting. I'll be in a time crunch, especially
&gt; with getting Jesse to a friend's house before the meeting.
&gt;
&gt; X
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; -----Original Message-----
&gt; From: X
&gt; Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:38 PM
&gt; To: coordination@madpeace.org
&gt; Cc: X; X
&gt; Subject: [MAPC-coord] cc mission for approval, gm agenda
&gt;
&gt; Here is the CC mission, combining Rae's original plus what we
added/changed:
&gt;
&gt; - The main decision-making body of MAPC is the General Meeting.  The
General
&gt; Meeting sets the politics and the general direction of MAPC.  The
&gt; Coordinating Committee takes its direction from the General Meeting, and
is
&gt; accountable to the general membership.  All decisions made by the
&gt; Coordinating Committee are subject to discussion and review by the General
&gt; Meeting.  The Coordinating Commitee ensures that the decisions of the
&gt; General Meetings are implemented.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is the central orgainizing body of MAPC.  It
&gt; ensures that the work of the committees is coordinated.  It evaluates
&gt; ongoing work to make sure that MAPC is not missing opportunities for
&gt; outreach, growth, and political impact.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is responsible for facilitating development
of
&gt; overall strategy for the coalition, subject to General Meeting approval,
and
&gt; for providing recommendations to ensure that the work of the committees is
&gt; coordinated in a matter consistent with that strategy.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is empowered to make emergency decisions for
&gt; MAPC.  An emergency decision consists of responding appropriately to
rapidly
&gt; changing current events, or of initiating the coordination of plans that
are
&gt; under time constraint. The Coordinating Committee has the right to make
&gt; emergency decisions when necessary.  Emergency decisions will be reported
&gt; back to the General Meeting.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is responsible for establishing policy on and
&gt; making decisions regarding disbursement of funds by the coaltion.
&gt;
&gt; - The Coordinating Committee is responsible for orgainizing the General
&gt; Meetings.  It will develop agendas for General Meetings.  It assures that
&gt; General Meetings are organized so that critical discussions are held and
&gt; important decisions are made in a timely fashion.
&gt; =========================================
&gt;
&gt; THis was a little more difficult than it seemed, since not all sentences
&gt; flowed well with what was sandwiched in.  The first paragraph is funky
with
&gt; using "general meeting" and "general membership" but I think it's probably
&gt; ok. I did some minor editing to make everything fit together. We agreed to
&gt; give 24 hours for corrections and feedback. X and X will present.
&gt; X, will you be printing for distribution at the meeting?
&gt;
&gt; Here is the agenda:
&gt;
&gt; GM meeting agenda
&gt;
&gt; 1) Welcome
&gt; 2) committee reports
&gt; - action
&gt; - outreach
&gt; - Student Youth
&gt; - Arts
&gt; - media
&gt; - policy
&gt; - fundraising
&gt; - labor movement report
&gt; 3) Proposals (new business)
&gt; - CC mission proposal
&gt; - Action committee vigil proposal
&gt; - SYC logo proposal
&gt; 4) Announcements
&gt; 5) Optional - Video
&gt;
&gt; I'll get the meeting notes out as soon as I can clean them up, probably
&gt; tomorrow evening.
&gt;
&gt; X
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _________________________________________________________________
&gt; Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; coordination@madpeace.org
&gt; http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; coordination@madpeace.org
&gt; http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc
&gt;


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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Policy Folks -

   I'm leaving multiple messages for X, in various media.  I am 
asking for a brief sit-down meeting with us before 11/14 (deadline to file 
resolution for debate on 11/20).

   I will talk to X tonight, and perhaps try for the same thing 
there, since the progressive caucus chose him Friday to be the contact for 
this issue with me.

   I will get back to you as soon as I have place and time.

--X

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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I will add it to the agenda.
&gt;--- Original Message ---
&gt;From: "Sarah Coyle" &lt;sarah@arccommserv.com&gt;
&gt;To: &lt;coordination@madpeace.org&gt;, &lt;announce@madpeace.org&gt;
&gt;Date: 10/29/01 10:04:47 AM
&gt;
Hi,
&gt;
&gt;I totally forgot that the policy committee wants something on
the
&gt;"proposals" agenda:  we have a proposal that the city alders
vote for a
&gt;resolution that condems bombing (in different language than
that) in
&gt;Afganistan.  The resolution will be posted on "discuss" for
all to read &amp;
&gt;give feedback, to make changes before Tuesday.  X
has been
&gt;heading it up.  Could we put it on the agenda for Tuesday? 
Thanks.
&gt;
&gt;Sarah
&gt;
&gt;

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I remember is well.  The time was Tue, Nov 13, 2001 at 01:21:57PM -0600, and
X whispered:

&gt;
&gt; What do you think?  It's later than we had hoped to have it introduced,
but
&gt; it sounds like we'll have a better chance of passing the resolution then
&gt; (given council dynamics), and we'll also have more time to mobilize the
&gt; community in support of the resolution.  It's true that this puts the
&gt; resolution passing just after the timeline humanitarian groups have put on
&gt; needing to start land convoys of aid, but I'm thinking that this is OK for
&gt; two reasons:  First, it's not like the U.S. federal gov't will immediately
&gt; stop bombing because of a Madison city council resolution - this is one
&gt; effort in a much bigger movement that will contribute to opening up
dialogue
&gt; on the issue.  Second - this is tragic and I hope it doesn't come across
as
&gt; insensitive - if there are increased reports of Afghani civilians starving
&gt; just before the council vote, it will make it really hard for alders not
to
&gt; support the resolution (and we should submit copies of any articles like
&gt; this to the alders just before the Dec 4 vote).
&gt;

Actually, I'm getting pretty concerned that recent events in Afghanistan are
working against the strategy of our resolution.  Humanitarian aid is going
(I
predict) to turn from the big weakness of the administration's position to a
propaganda coup.

I predict a *massive* effort will be undertaken (not least because Bush's
indifference to the humanitarian situation was starting to bother even
British
hawks). Now that the NA controls most of Afghanistan, this will be at least
mostly feasible.

Which is a great thing, because I was really starting to despair over the
lives
that seemed doomed to be lost. I can't come to the meeting tonight, but I
think
it is important to consider how to adapt our policy to counter the
possibility.
If we could have gotten this passed sooner, we could have indeed gained an
important rhetorical advantage, but I don't think Dec. 4 will do us much
good.

It's not that there still won't be a humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan.
But
Bush now has the opportunity to appear to be making "all possible effort" to
fix
the situation (which I actually hope he does).  Since most of the dying will
be
happening in the Taliban-controlled south (assuming they stop running near
Khandahar), you can bet they'll be blamed for the starvation.

The Bush team may have dodged the bullet on this.  If they don't, of course,
we
must howl bloody murder and put all our weight behind it--or we will be
talking
about genocide next spring.  I'd really prefer not to.  Let's hope they do
the
(only) moral thing, and think of other ways to make our points.

I'd suggest alternative lines of argument would include urging the
administration
not to consider expanding the scope of the war to include other countries,
such
as Iraq.  We can also stress the need for immediate negotiations over a
peace
deal between Israel and the Palestinians.  Other ideas?

Or am I off base?  I'm just concerned that if this resolution, as written,
is
voted on Dec. 4, it may be in the middle of a *super* publicized
humanitarian
effort, and thus appear almost discredited.  Maybe the administration will
blow this crucial moment and fail to support a massive aid push.  I don't
think
even Bush is that stupid, however.

My .02$, for what they're worth.

X

_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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                  <text>The Madison Area Peace Coalition (MAPC) formed fourteen days after the September 11 attacks to oppose (among other goals) the use of U.S. military, economic, or political force – whether direct or proxy, overt or covert -- "that violates the sovereignty or human rights of any nation or people." The Archive has assembled here e-mails exchanges from MAPC dating from the group's founding until late November 2001.</text>
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Hi all!

Just a heads up that the MAPC logo will be on the agenda for Tuesday night's
general membership meeting, and a few comments (okay, I lied - lots of
comments) since I may not be able to attend the whole meeting.

While (AFAIK) we've never voted on this, the peace sign wrapped around the
globe has become the de facto MAPC logo.  (IIRC the general membership
referred the logo question back to the Arts &amp; Culture WG, and they couldn't
come up with anything better.)

The Student/Youth Caucus has objected to this logo, and designed a new one,
which will be presented on Tuesday.  (As I understand it, the problem is
that the peace sign is tied to a particular historic era, and carries
baggage which is too hippie-ish -- as opposed to activist.  There is also
concern that the grey-scale of the logo does not reduce or reproduce well.)
Their proposed logo has a half-globe, without peace sign, with paler images
of the globe radiating out from it.  (Lousy description, I know.)

I sympathize with the S/YC's objections, but I like their proposed graphic
even less than the one we've been using.  To me, it's not particularly
distinctive, and a globe alone just doesn't say "peace" to me.  It could
just as easily be the logo graphic for a global telecommunications
corporation.

Then again, I'm not sure that any graphic we pick to represent
"peace/anti-war" will be acceptable to and truly representative of the whole
Coalition.  The Vietnam-era peace sign is, well, Vietnam era, and doesn't
represent the new generation of activists.  The dove has a longer history,
but strikes me as a bit too "Pacifist" in image, as does the rifle with a
flower in its barrel, broken rifle, broken bomb, and a few others.  The
other predominant image from the Vietnam era, the clenched fist, of course,
has the opposite connotation.  We've already been through the discussion of
incorporating the symbolism of the American flag; some of us think "peace is
patriotic" and others of us think U.S. nationalism is part of the problem.
And while the globe could well be something that none of us object to, it
really doesn't symbolize anything that distinguishes us from the other side.

"Madison area" is tough to symbolize graphically.  The most identifiable
symbols are architectural (the State Capitol), and we have nothing to do
with state government.  Doing something with the outline of the state and
highlighting the Madison area really doesn't work graphically.  And I doubt
that anyone would recognize that a satellite view of the Four Lakes was
anything other than a Rorschach inkblot test.

We could try to have a symbol for everyone, incorporating lots of different
images in the logo, but the result would likely be an unwieldy mess.

My personal opinion at this point is that we should either (1)come up with a
graphic that is brand new -- no baggage from past movements or ideologies --
(and I have no earthly idea what this would be); or (2) just go with a
"words-only" logo, using a very distinctive typestyle and arrangement of the
words in our organization name.  If the typestyle and arrangement are
distinctive enough, IMO the logo will be recognizeable and identifiable, and
would avoid the symbolism &amp; baggage problems inherent in selecting any
graphic image for a diverse coalition.

X



_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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              <text>Monday, November 12, 2001 8:51 PM</text>
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              <text>discuss@madpeace.org</text>
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              <text>X</text>
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          <name>September 11 Email: CC</name>
          <description>The email addresses of those who received the message addressed primarily to another.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
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              <text>NULL</text>
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              <text>[MAPC-discuss] MAPC Logo Design -- Graphics, Symbolism, and</text>
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Hello members and friends of U.S. Out Now.

The next U.S. Out Now meeting is:

Thursday, October 25th
6:00 PM
Kabul's restaurant
541 State St.

The purpose of this meeting is to:

- Get together and enjoy each other's company

- Celebrate our hard work with the "Life Under Siege" Tent encampment and
the Madison Area Peace Coalition.

- Meet X, from the Chicago-based, Voices in the Wilderness (VitW).
VitW is a leading peace organization in the U.S. that organizes to stop the
bombs and sanctions on Iraq.

X went to Iraq this past August with a VitW delegation. He will join us
for dinner on Thursday night, October 25th and speak at the MATC
International Peacekeeping and Peacemaking conference on Friday, October
26th, 3:00-4:30 PM. For more information about the conference, see
http://www.wisconsin-institute.org.

Hope to see you at Kabul's on the 25th!

X
X
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          <name>September 11 Email: Date</name>
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              <text>Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:55 PM</text>
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          <name>September 11 Email: To</name>
          <description>The email addresses, and optionally names of the message's recipients</description>
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              <text>X; X</text>
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          <description>The email address, and optionally the name of the author.</description>
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              <text>X [mailto: X]</text>
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          <name>September 11 Email: CC</name>
          <description>The email addresses of those who received the message addressed primarily to another.</description>
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              <text>NULL</text>
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        <element elementId="70">
          <name>September 11 Email: Subject</name>
          <description>A brief summary of the topic of the message.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10923">
              <text>[al-awda-wi] U.S. Out Now Meeting, Thurs, 10/25, 6pm, Kabul's</text>
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              <text>
Sorry if this is a duplicate.  I'm a little worried that X
might not reach you.  Anyway, here is the resolution I drafted.  Your
comments would be appreciated.

======================================================================



A RESOLUTION regarding the urgent need to provide emergency humanitarian
assistance and development assistance to civilians in Afghanistan, including
Afghan refugees in surrounding countries.


SPONSORS:	[Alders names here.]


WHEREAS,	a disastrous humanitarian crisis is underway, with an estimated 7.5
million people in Afghanistan facing critical food shortage or outright
starvation this winter; and

WHEREAS, 	food aid shipments have been disrupted due to security concerns
around U.S. military actions in Afghanistan; and

WHEREAS,	Madison supports U.S. military efforts through many channels,
including the federal taxes its citizens pay, and through its citizens'
participation in the armed forces; and

WHEREAS,	the Mayor and Common Council deplore their participation in actions
that cause mass starvation;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Mayor and Common Council urge a
resolution to the situation that minimizes loss of life; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT humanitarian concerns must be a top U.S.
priority for action in Afghanistan, especially as there exists a narrow
window of opportunity for supplying food to the region's population before
winter makes this difficult or impossible; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT Afghanistan's neighbors should reopen their
borders to allow for the safe passage of refugees, and the international
community must be prepared to contribute to the economic costs incurred by
the flight of desperate Afghan civilians; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT as the United States engages in military action
in Afghanistan, it must work to deliver assistance, particularly through
overland truck convoys, and safe humanitarian access to affected
populations, in partnership with humanitarian agencies in quantities
sufficient to alleviate a large scale humanitarian catastrophe; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT the United States should contribute to efforts
by the international community to provide long-term, sustainable
reconstruction and development assistance for the people of Afghanistan,
including efforts to protect the basic human rights of women and children.
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          <description>The local time and date when the message was written.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10935">
              <text>Thursday, October 25, 2001 6:08 PM</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
        <element elementId="67">
          <name>September 11 Email: To</name>
          <description>The email addresses, and optionally names of the message's recipients</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10936">
              <text>X; X</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
        <element elementId="68">
          <name>September 11 Email: From</name>
          <description>The email address, and optionally the name of the author.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10937">
              <text>Barbara Smith [X]</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
        <element elementId="69">
          <name>September 11 Email: CC</name>
          <description>The email addresses of those who received the message addressed primarily to another.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10938">
              <text>NULL</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
        <element elementId="70">
          <name>September 11 Email: Subject</name>
          <description>A brief summary of the topic of the message.</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="10939">
              <text>copy of proposed city resolution</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
      </elementContainer>
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                <text>copy of proposed city resolution</text>
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                <text>approved</text>
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Folks,

after browsing the action committee page I realized that I am to lead
the crowd in chants.

Suggestions needed!

What should we chant tomorrow?

let me know asap!

thanks,
X
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via http://www.kuro5hin.org/

http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&amp;storyid=143236

[Rep. Ron]  Paul [of TX] confirms rumors circulating in Washington that
this sweeping new law, with serious implications for each and every
American, was not made available to members of Congress for review before
the vote. "It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote
at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House
in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful
of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to
members before the vote."

----------------
also...
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/11/14/83952/307

The President of the United States, having "determined that an
extraordinary emergency exists" has signed an executive order which allows
for secret trials, by military tribunals, of captured terrorists.  The
trials could be held in the US or abroad, and there is to be no judicial
review of the convictions or sentences.  The order was signed by President
Bush in his capacity as the Commander in Chief.

specifically:
http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/14/nati
onal/14DTEX.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------
X
------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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            <elementText elementTextId="10971">
              <text>[MAPC-discuss] Who read PATRIOT?</text>
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As X stated, the first paragraph was the toughest to write. I think the
following text flows the best, using X's edits and mine. Any feedback?

The main decision-making body of MAPC is the General Meeting. The General
Meeting sets the politics and the overall direction of MAPC. The
Coordinating Committee ensures that the decisions of the General Meeting are
implemented. The CC takes its direction from the General Meeting, and is
accountable to the membership. All decisions made by the CC are subject to
discussion and review by the General Meeting.



_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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              <text>NULL</text>
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              <text>----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frank Paynter 
To: coordination@madpeace.org ; X 
Cc: X 
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: [MAPC-coord] PROPOSAL: MAPC/SWAIG Joint Newsletter

If you would like to change your proposal to the publication of a joint newsletter next month, I would approve.  But commiting to a regular monthly publication, welllll...
 
I'm a little shy about approving this proposal and the reasons are a combination of fiscal and political caution.  If MAPC formally produces a newsletter, how will we assure a continuing commitment to appeal to a broad base of peace oriented people?  If we commit to supporting $500 publication costs, then we're also talking about that plus an occasional $400 or $500 distribution costs to get those 10,000 8 pagers folded into the Isthmus and we're up to $1000 a month.  Sounds like a good agenda item for the General Membership meeting.  I would prefer occasional ad hoc efforts rather than a joint commitment to publish a regular periodical.  
 
Incidentally, the anti war movement may be a minority, but it remains to be seen how small it is.  I've talked and talked and can't find many people who are for the war.
X
ps
I think we could hit a higher energy level, save 95% of that money and diseminate more and better information by saving those trees and going straight to a blog format.
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: madpeace-cc-admin@lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com [mailto:madpeace-cc-admin@lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com]On Behalf Of X
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 6:36 PM
To: coordination@madpeace.org
Subject: [MAPC-coord] PROPOSAL: MAPC/SWAIG Joint Newsletter

Educating the public needs to be our number one priority right now, given just how small a minority the anti-war movement is.  MAPC should be disseminating information and analysis on the widest possible basis, and using that information to help bring people into the organization and establish our identify in the community.  As X said at the student teach-in, we need to be thinking in terms of 10,000 copies of our literature, not a few hundred.
 
Following discussions with the South West Asia Information Group, I am proposing that MAPC &amp; SWAIG publish a joint monthly newsletter.
 
The newsletter would be published as an 8-page newsprint tabloid.  MAPC would be responsible for content of pages 7 and 8, plus about a quarter of page one.  SWAIG would be responsible for the remaining content.  
 
SWAIG's content would be similar to what was contained in its initial tabloid -- anslysis of the region, the war, and U.S. foreign policy.  MAPC's content would be a calendar of events, information from the various Working Groups on their upcoming activities, reports on past activities, and other content designed to motivate readers to get involved.  Solicitation of donations would also be included.
 
Approximately 10,000 copies of each issue would be published, requiring a major effort at distribution through literature tables, bundles left at stores, co-ops, etc., passing out at events or to pedestrians, and perhaps even door-to-door distribution in selected neighborhoods.
 
The printing cost for 10,000 copies of a 8-page tabloid would be approximately $500.00, using the non-union printer that SWAIG used for its tabloid.  (I would prefer to transfer the project to a union shop, preferably Port Publications in Port Washington; this may require an adjustment in either the budget or number of copies.)  This cost would be covered by MAPC.
 
I would expect that the newsletter would generate $100 to $200 per month in new donations, based on people clipping a donation request coupon.  Another option would be to sell advertisements in the newsletter to supportive businesses, co-ops, and organizations.  (SWAIG opposed this option, based on possible conflicts with the Madison Insurgent.  I will be meeting with the Insurgent collective to discuss whether they would in fact have objections to this.)
 
If finances do not permit monthly publication, Plan B would be for alternating between the tabloid and a 2-page, 8.5 by 11, smaller circulation, newsletter containing only MAPC organizational info.
 
Because MAPC's contribution to the content would reflect the activities of all of the Working Groups, I believe that the newsletter should be coordinated at the CC level.  (I ran this past O&amp;E, who agreed.)  Options for filling the newsletter editor position would include:
 
(a)  One of the existing CC members could take on this project.
 
(b)  A new at-large CC position could be created
 
(c)  A Newsletter Working Group could be created; or
 
(d)  A volunteer who is not officially on the CC. but is willing to attend CC meetings, could be located.
 
X
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              <text> This article from NYTimes.com
 has been sent to you by x


 hi there special ones,

 i don't know if you all had a chance to read the sunday times-- so i'm
 e-mailing this article-- please pass it on to people if you think they might
 be interested.

xxoo
- x


 
 This Is a Religious War

 October 7, 2001

 By ANDREW SULLIVAN




 Perhaps the most admirable part of the response to the
 conflict that began on Sept. 11 has been a general
 reluctance to call it a religious war. Officials and
 commentators have rightly stressed that this is not a
 battle between the Muslim world and the West, that the
 murderers are not representative of Islam. President Bush
 went to the Islamic Center in Washington to reinforce the
 point. At prayer meetings across the United States and
 throughout the world, Muslim leaders have been included
 alongside Christians, Jews and Buddhists.

 The only problem with this otherwise laudable effort is
 that it doesn't hold up under inspection. The religious
 dimension of this conflict is central to its meaning. The
 words of Osama bin Laden are saturated with religious
 argument and theological language. Whatever else the
 Taliban regime is in Afghanistan, it is fanatically
 religious. Although some Muslim leaders have criticized the
 terrorists, and even Saudi Arabia's rulers have distanced
 themselves from the militants, other Muslims in the Middle
 East and elsewhere have not denounced these acts, have been
 conspicuously silent or have indeed celebrated them. The
 terrorists' strain of Islam is clearly not shared by most
 Muslims and is deeply unrepresentative of Islam's glorious,
 civilized and peaceful past. But it surely represents a
 part of Islam -- a radical, fundamentalist part -- that
 simply cannot be ignored or denied.

 In that sense, this surely is a religious war -- but not of
 Islam versus Christianity and Judaism. Rather, it is a war
 of fundamentalism against faiths of all kinds that are at
 peace with freedom and modernity. This war even has far
 gentler echoes in America's own religious conflicts --
 between newer, more virulent strands of Christian
 fundamentalism and mainstream Protestantism and
 Catholicism. These conflicts have ancient roots, but they
 seem to be gaining new force as modernity spreads and
 deepens. They are our new wars of religion -- and their
 victims are in all likelihood going to mount with each
 passing year.

 Osama bin Laden himself couldn't be clearer about the
 religious underpinnings of his campaign of terror. In 1998,
 he told his followers, ''The call to wage war against
 America was made because America has spearheaded the
 crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of
 thousands of its troops to the land of the two holy mosques
 over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics
 and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical
 regime that is in control.'' Notice the use of the word
 ''crusade,'' an explicitly religious term, and one that
 simply ignores the fact that the last few major American
 interventions abroad -- in Kuwait, Somalia and the Balkans
 -- were all conducted in defense of Muslims.

 Notice also that as bin Laden understands it, the
 ''crusade'' America is alleged to be leading is not against
 Arabs but against the Islamic nation, which spans many
 ethnicities. This nation knows no nation-states as they
 actually exist in the region -- which is why this form of
 Islamic fundamentalism is also so worrying to the rulers of
 many Middle Eastern states. Notice also that bin Laden's
 beef is with American troops defiling the land of Saudi
 Arabia -- the land of the two holy mosques,'' in Mecca and
 Medina. In 1998, he also told followers that his terrorism
 was ''of the commendable kind, for it is directed at the
 tyrants and the aggressors and the enemies of Allah.'' He
 has a litany of grievances against Israel as well, but his
 concerns are not primarily territorial or procedural. ''Our
 religion is under attack,'' he said baldly. The attackers
 are Christians and Jews. When asked to sum up his message
 to the people of the West, bin Laden couldn't have been
 clearer: ''Our call is the call of Islam that was revealed
 to Muhammad. It is a call to all mankind. We have been
 entrusted with good cause to follow in the footsteps of the
 messenger and to communicate his message to all nations.''

 This is a religious war against ''unbelief and
 unbelievers,'' in bin Laden's words. Are these cynical
 words designed merely to use Islam for nefarious ends? We
 cannot know the precise motives of bin Laden, but we can
 know that he would not use these words if he did not think
 they had salience among the people he wishes to inspire and
 provoke. This form of Islam is not restricted to bin Laden
 alone.

 Its roots lie in an extreme and violent strain in Islam
 that emerged in the 18th century in opposition to what was
 seen by some Muslims as Ottoman decadence but has gained
 greater strength in the 20th. For the past two decades,
 this form of Islamic fundamentalism has racked the Middle
 East. It has targeted almost every regime in the region
 and, as it failed to make progress, has extended its
 hostility into the West. From the assassination of Anwar
 Sadat to the fatwa against Salman Rushdie to the decadelong
 campaign of bin Laden to the destruction of ancient
 Buddhist statues and the hideous persecution of women and
 homosexuals by the Taliban to the World Trade Center
 massacre, there is a single line. That line is a
 fundamentalist, religious one. And it is an Islamic one.

 Most interpreters of the Koran find no arguments in it for
 the murder of innocents. But it would be naive to ignore in
 Islam a deep thread of intolerance toward unbelievers,
 especially if those unbelievers are believed to be a threat
 to the Islamic world. There are many passages in the Koran
 urging mercy toward others, tolerance, respect for life and
 so on. But there are also passages as violent as this:
 ''And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who
 join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and
 seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every
 kind of ambush.'' And this: ''Believers! Wage war against
 such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them
 find you rigorous.'' Bernard Lewis, the great scholar of
 Islam, writes of the dissonance within Islam: ''There is
 something in the religious culture of Islam which inspired,
 in even the humblest peasant or peddler, a dignity and a
 courtesy toward others never exceeded and rarely equaled in
 other civilizations. And yet, in moments of upheaval and
 disruption, when the deeper passions are stirred, this
 dignity and courtesy toward others can give way to an
 explosive mixture of rage and hatred which impels even the
 government of an ancient and civilized country -- even the
 spokesman of a great spiritual and ethical religion -- to
 espouse kidnapping and assassination, and try to find, in
 the life of their prophet, approval and indeed precedent
 for such actions.'' Since Muhammad was, unlike many other
 religious leaders, not simply a sage or a prophet but a
 ruler in his own right, this exploitation of his politics
 is not as great a stretch as some would argue.

 This use of religion for extreme repression, and even
 terror, is not of course restricted to Islam. For most of
 its history, Christianity has had a worse record. From the
 Crusades to the Inquisition to the bloody religious wars of
 the 16th and 17th centuries, Europe saw far more blood
 spilled for religion's sake than the Muslim world did. And
 given how expressly nonviolent the teachings of the Gospels
 are, the perversion of Christianity in this respect was
 arguably greater than bin Laden's selective use of Islam.
 But it is there nonetheless. It seems almost as if there is
 something inherent in religious monotheism that lends
 itself to this kind of terrorist temptation. And our bland
 attempts to ignore this -- to speak of this violence as if
 it did not have religious roots -- is some kind of denial.
 We don't want to denigrate religion as such, and so we deny
 that religion is at the heart of this. But we would
 understand this conflict better, perhaps, if we first
 acknowledged that religion is responsible in some way, and
 then figured out how and why.

 The first mistake is surely to condescend to
 fundamentalism. We may disagree with it, but it has
 attracted millions of adherents for centuries, and for a
 good reason. It elevates and comforts. It provides a sense
 of meaning and direction to those lost in a disorienting
 world. The blind recourse to texts embraced as literal
 truth, the injunction to follow the commandments of God
 before anything else, the subjugation of reason and
 judgment and even conscience to the dictates of dogma:
 these can be exhilarating and transformative. They have led
 human beings to perform extraordinary acts of both good and
 evil. And they have an internal logic to them. If you
 believe that there is an eternal afterlife and that endless
 indescribable torture awaits those who disobey God's law,
 then it requires no huge stretch of imagination to make
 sure that you not only conform to each diktat but that you
 also encourage and, if necessary, coerce others to do the
 same. The logic behind this is impeccable. Sin begets sin.
 The sin of others can corrupt you as well. The only
 solution is to construct a world in which such sin is
 outlawed and punished and constantly purged -- by force if
 necessary. It is not crazy to act this way if you believe
 these things strongly enough. In some ways, it's crazier to
 believe these things and not act this way.

 In a world of absolute truth, in matters graver than life
 and death, there is no room for dissent and no room for
 theological doubt. Hence the reliance on literal
 interpretations of texts -- because interpretation can lead
 to error, and error can lead to damnation. Hence also the
 ancient Catholic insistence on absolute church authority.
 Without infallibility, there can be no guarantee of truth.
 Without such a guarantee, confusion can lead to hell.

 Dostoyevsky's Grand Inquisitor makes the case perhaps as
 well as anyone. In the story told by Ivan Karamazov in
 ''The Brothers Karamazov,'' Jesus returns to earth during
 the Spanish Inquisition. On a day when hundreds have been
 burned at the stake for heresy, Jesus performs miracles.
 Alarmed, the Inquisitor arrests Jesus and imprisons him
 with the intent of burning him at the stake as well. What
 follows is a conversation between the Inquisitor and Jesus.
 Except it isn't a conversation because Jesus says nothing.
 It is really a dialogue between two modes of religion, an
 exploration of the tension between the extraordinary,
 transcendent claims of religion and human beings' inability
 to live up to them, or even fully believe them.

 According to the Inquisitor, Jesus' crime was revealing
 that salvation was possible but still allowing humans the
 freedom to refuse it. And this, to the Inquisitor, was a
 form of cruelty. When the truth involves the most important
 things imaginable -- the meaning of life, the fate of one's
 eternal soul, the difference between good and evil -- it is
 not enough to premise it on the capacity of human choice.
 That is too great a burden. Choice leads to unbelief or
 distraction or negligence or despair. What human beings
 really need is the certainty of truth, and they need to see
 it reflected in everything around them -- in the cultures
 in which they live, enveloping them in a seamless fabric of
 faith that helps them resist the terror of choice and the
 abyss of unbelief. This need is what the Inquisitor calls
 the ''fundamental secret of human nature.'' He explains:
 ''These pitiful creatures are concerned not only to find
 what one or the other can worship, but to find something
 that all would believe in and worship; what is essential is
 that all may be together in it. This craving for community
 of worship is the chief misery of every man individually
 and of all humanity since the beginning of time.''

 This is the voice of fundamentalism. Faith cannot exist
 alone in a single person. Indeed, faith needs others for it
 to survive -- and the more complete the culture of faith,
 the wider it is, and the more total its infiltration of the
 world, the better. It is hard for us to wrap our minds
 around this today, but it is quite clear from the accounts
 of the Inquisition and, indeed, of the religious wars that
 continued to rage in Europe for nearly three centuries,
 that many of the fanatics who burned human beings at the
 stake were acting out of what they genuinely thought were
 the best interests of the victims. With the power of the
 state, they used fire, as opposed to simple execution,
 because it was thought to be spiritually cleansing. A few
 minutes of hideous torture on earth were deemed a small
 price to pay for helping such souls avoid eternal torture
 in the afterlife. Moreover, the example of such
 government-sponsored executions helped create a culture in
 which certain truths were reinforced and in which it was
 easier for more weak people to find faith. The burden of
 this duty to uphold the faith lay on the men required to
 torture, persecute and murder the unfaithful. And many of
 them believed, as no doubt some Islamic fundamentalists
 believe, that they were acting out of mercy and godliness.

 This is the authentic voice of the Taliban. It also finds
 itself replicated in secular form. What, after all, were
 the totalitarian societies of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia
 if not an exact replica of this kind of fusion of politics
 and ultimate meaning? Under Lenin's and Stalin's rules, the
 imminence of salvation through revolutionary consciousness
 was in perpetual danger of being undermined by those too
 weak to have faith -- the bourgeois or the kulaks or the
 intellectuals. So they had to be liquidated or purged.
 Similarly, it is easy for us to dismiss the Nazis as evil,
 as they surely were. It is harder for us to understand that
 in some twisted fashion, they truly believed that they were
 creating a new dawn for humanity, a place where all the
 doubts that freedom brings could be dispelled in a rapture
 of racial purity and destiny. Hence the destruction of all
 dissidents and the Jews -- carried out by fire as the
 Inquisitors had before, an act of purification different
 merely in its scale, efficiency and Godlessness.

 Perhaps the most important thing for us to realize today is
 that the defeat of each of these fundamentalisms required a
 long and arduous effort. The conflict with Islamic
 fundamentalism is likely to take as long. For unlike
 Europe's religious wars, which taught Christians the
 futility of fighting to the death over something beyond
 human understanding and so immune to any definitive
 resolution, there has been no such educative conflict in
 the Muslim world. Only Iran and Afghanistan have
 experienced the full horror of revolutionary
 fundamentalism, and only Iran has so far seen reason to
 moderate to some extent. From everything we see, the
 lessons Europe learned in its bloody history have yet to be
 absorbed within the Muslim world. There, as in 16th-century
 Europe, the promise of purity and salvation seems far more
 enticing than the mundane allure of mere peace. That means
 that we are not at the end of this conflict but in its very
 early stages.

 America is not a neophyte in this struggle. the United
 States has seen several waves of religious fervor since its
 founding. But American evangelicalism has always kept its
 distance from governmental power. The Christian separation
 between what is God's and what is Caesar's -- drawn from
 the Gospels -- helped restrain the fundamentalist
 temptation. The last few decades have proved an exception,
 however. As modernity advanced, and the certitudes of
 fundamentalist faith seemed mocked by an increasingly
 liberal society, evangelicals mobilized and entered
 politics. Their faith sharpened, their zeal intensified,
 the temptation to fuse political and religious authority
 beckoned more insistently.

 Mercifully, violence has not been a significant feature of
 this trend -- but it has not been absent. The murders of
 abortion providers show what such zeal can lead to. And
 indeed, if people truly believe that abortion is the same
 as mass murder, then you can see the awful logic of the
 terrorism it has spawned. This is the same logic as bin
 Laden's. If faith is that strong, and it dictates a choice
 between action or eternal damnation, then violence can
 easily be justified. In retrospect, we should be amazed not
 that violence has occurred -- but that it hasn't occurred
 more often.

 The critical link between Western and Middle Eastern
 fundamentalism is surely the pace of social change. If you
 take your beliefs from books written more than a thousand
 years ago, and you believe in these texts literally, then
 the appearance of the modern world must truly terrify. If
 you believe that women should be consigned to polygamous,
 concealed servitude, then Manhattan must appear like
 Gomorrah. If you believe that homosexuality is a crime
 punishable by death, as both fundamentalist Islam and the
 Bible dictate, then a world of same-sex marriage is surely
 Sodom. It is not a big step to argue that such centers of
 evil should be destroyed or undermined, as bin Laden does,
 or to believe that their destruction is somehow a
 consequence of their sin, as Jerry Falwell argued. Look
 again at Falwell's now infamous words in the wake of Sept.
 11: ''I really believe that the pagans, and the
 abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and lesbians
 who are actively trying to make that an alternative
 lifestyle, the A.C.L.U., People for the American Way -- all
 of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the
 finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'''

 And why wouldn't he believe that? He has subsequently
 apologized for the insensitivity of the remark but not for
 its theological underpinning. He cannot repudiate the
 theology -- because it is the essence of what he believes
 in and must believe in for his faith to remain alive.

 The other critical aspect of this kind of faith is
 insecurity. American fundamentalists know they are losing
 the culture war. They are terrified of failure and of the
 Godless world they believe is about to engulf or crush
 them. They speak and think defensively. They talk about
 renewal, but in their private discourse they expect
 damnation for an America that has lost sight of the
 fundamentalist notion of God.

 Similarly, Muslims know that the era of Islam's imperial
 triumph has long since gone. For many centuries, the
 civilization of Islam was the center of the world. It
 eclipsed Europe in the Dark Ages, fostered great learning
 and expanded territorially well into Europe and Asia. But
 it has all been downhill from there. From the collapse of
 the Ottoman Empire onward, it has been on the losing side
 of history. The response to this has been an intermittent
 flirtation with Westernization but far more emphatically a
 reaffirmation of the most irredentist and extreme forms of
 the culture under threat. Hence the odd phenomenon of
 Islamic extremism beginning in earnest only in the last 200
 years.

 With Islam, this has worse implications than for other
 cultures that have had rises and falls. For Islam's
 religious tolerance has always been premised on its own
 power. It was tolerant when it controlled the territory and
 called the shots. When it lost territory and saw itself
 eclipsed by the West in power and civilization, tolerance
 evaporated. To cite Lewis again on Islam: ''What is truly
 evil and unacceptable is the domination of infidels over
 true believers. For true believers to rule misbelievers is
 proper and natural, since this provides for the maintenance
 of the holy law and gives the misbelievers both the
 opportunity and the incentive to embrace the true faith.
 But for misbelievers to rule over true believers is
 blasphemous and unnatural, since it leads to the corruption
 of religion and morality in society and to the flouting or
 even the abrogation of God's law.''

 Thus the horror at the establishment of the State of
 Israel, an infidel country in Muslim lands, a bitter
 reminder of the eclipse of Islam in the modern world. Thus
 also the revulsion at American bases in Saudi Arabia. While
 colonialism of different degrees is merely political
 oppression for some cultures, for Islam it was far worse.
 It was blasphemy that had to be avenged and countered.

 I cannot help thinking of this defensiveness when I read
 stories of the suicide bombers sitting poolside in Florida
 or racking up a $48 vodka tab in an American restaurant. We
 tend to think that this assimilation into the West might
 bring Islamic fundamentalists around somewhat, temper their
 zeal. But in fact, the opposite is the case. The temptation
 of American and Western culture -- indeed, the very allure
 of such culture -- may well require a repression all the
 more brutal if it is to be overcome. The transmission of
 American culture into the heart of what bin Laden calls the
 Islamic nation requires only two responses -- capitulation
 to unbelief or a radical strike against it. There is little
 room in the fundamentalist psyche for a moderate
 accommodation. The very psychological dynamics that lead
 repressed homosexuals to be viciously homophobic or that
 entice sexually tempted preachers to inveigh against
 immorality are the very dynamics that lead vodka-drinking
 fundamentalists to steer planes into buildings. It is not
 designed to achieve anything, construct anything, argue
 anything. It is a violent acting out of internal conflict.

 And America is the perfect arena for such acting out. For
 the question of religious fundamentalism was not only
 familiar to the founding fathers. In many ways, it was the
 central question that led to America's existence. The first
 American immigrants, after all, were refugees from the
 religious wars that engulfed England and that intensified
 under England's Taliban, Oliver Cromwell. One central
 influence on the founders' political thought was John
 Locke, the English liberal who wrote the now famous
 ''Letter on Toleration.'' In it, Locke argued that true
 salvation could not be a result of coercion, that faith had
 to be freely chosen to be genuine and that any other
 interpretation was counter to the Gospels. Following Locke,
 the founders established as a central element of the new
 American order a stark separation of church and state,
 ensuring that no single religion could use political means
 to enforce its own orthodoxies.

 We cite this as a platitude today without absorbing or even
 realizing its radical nature in human history -- and the
 deep human predicament it was designed to solve. It was an
 attempt to answer the eternal human question of how to
 pursue the goal of religious salvation for ourselves and
 others and yet also maintain civil peace. What the founders
 and Locke were saying was that the ultimate claims of
 religion should simply not be allowed to interfere with
 political and religious freedom. They did this to preserve
 peace above all -- but also to preserve true religion
 itself.

 The security against an American Taliban is therefore
 relatively simple: it's the Constitution. And the
 surprising consequence of this separation is not that it
 led to a collapse of religious faith in America -- as weak
 human beings found themselves unable to believe without
 social and political reinforcement -- but that it led to
 one of the most vibrantly religious civil societies on
 earth. No other country has achieved this. And it is this
 achievement that the Taliban and bin Laden have now decided
 to challenge. It is a living, tangible rebuke to everything
 they believe in.

 That is why this coming conflict is indeed as momentous and
 as grave as the last major conflicts, against Nazism and
 Communism, and why it is not hyperbole to see it in these
 epic terms. What is at stake is yet another battle against
 a religion that is succumbing to the temptation Jesus
 refused in the desert -- to rule by force. The difference
 is that this conflict is against a more formidable enemy
 than Nazism or Communism. The secular totalitarianisms of
 the 20th century were, in President Bush's memorable words,
 ''discarded lies.'' They were fundamentalisms built on the
 very weak intellectual conceits of a master race and a
 Communist revolution.

 But Islamic fundamentalism is based on a glorious
 civilization and a great faith. It can harness and co-opt
 and corrupt true and good believers if it has a propitious
 and toxic enough environment. It has a more powerful logic
 than either Stalin's or Hitler's Godless ideology, and it
 can serve as a focal point for all the other societies in
 the world, whose resentment of Western success and
 civilization comes more easily than the arduous task of
 accommodation to modernity. We have to somehow defeat this
 without defeating or even opposing a great religion that is
 nonetheless extremely inexperienced in the toleration of
 other ascendant and more powerful faiths. It is hard to
 underestimate the extreme delicacy and difficulty of this
 task.

 In this sense, the symbol of this conflict should not be
 Old Glory, however stirring it is. What is really at issue
 here is the simple but immensely difficult principle of the
 separation of politics and religion. We are fighting not
 for our country as such or for our flag. We are fighting
 for the universal principles of our Constitution -- and the
 possibility of free religious faith it guarantees. We are
 fighting for religion against one of the deepest strains in
 religion there is. And not only our lives but our souls are
 at stake.

 Andrew Sullivan is a contributing writer for the
 magazine.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/07/magazine/07RELIGION.html?ex=1003644909&amp;ei=1&amp;
 en=a390611ff1c7b91c
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 AFGHANISTAN: Annan Wants End To Strikes Soon; More
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hi X. and all,

Thanks for all your work on this!  To clarify - who exactly have you been
talking to and do you have any sense for how representative their views are
(at least for the progressive caucus)?  I realize that you'll know all that
better after Thurs night.

Ideally, I guess I'd like to see the "stronger" resolution introduced as a
communication and have the "weaker" one be introduced by one or (hopefully)
more progressive alders.  If that's not going to happen - and it sounds
unlikely from what you've sent - I think we need to pressure the alders
we've been talking to to introduce the "weaker" one before T'ksgiving.  I
have to say I'm really disappointed that they're hesitant to do anything
before T'ksgiving.  After all, the reality we're addressing is an impending
massive humanitarian crisis.  Jeeeeeeezus.  THEY need a breather????

I don't know anything about resolutions introduced as a communication w/out
any alder sponsors, but it seems to me that doing that with our "weaker",
more likely to pass resolution will flag it as unacceptable to the council.
If I were a middle of the road alder and saw that none of the PD alders had
signed on, I sure as heck wouldn't vote for it.  (But I think it'd be fine
to introduce the "stronger" one like that, if we do still decide to
introduce it.)

So, I guess - with the current info we have - I feel ambivalent about the
"stronger" resolution.  If it will help the "weaker" one pass to introduce
it - by communication or by an alder - then I say we go for it.  But the
people we need to talk to for this analysis are the PD alders who are
balking at the "weaker" one.

I strongly feel that we should have SOMETHING - preferably the "weaker" one
unchanged from where we left it (or at least not substantially changed)
voted on by Nov 20.  I feel the broader MAPC would agree with this -
remember, at the last meeting the 1st vote was unanimous support for us
bringing SOMETHING to the council (with a sense of urgency regarding the
imminent starvation of millions), and the 2nd was in support of the
2-pronged strategy.  If we have more info now that the 2-pronged strategy
won't work, the directive from the 1st vote still stands.

That's my rambling input for now.

-X

&gt; Hi Everyone,
&gt;
&gt; The progressive caucus thought they would be ready to act on something
&gt; AFTER Thanksgiving.  Apparently changing "prayers" to "sympathies" was
very
&gt; divisive last time, so they needed a breather.
&gt;
&gt; I still haven't gotten the in-depth feedback on this--Thursday night I
&gt; should.  X has been appointed to do this for me.
&gt;
&gt; X suggested we intro the whole text as a "communication" (no
&gt; alder's name attached).  That could be done BEFORE Thanksgiving.
&gt;
&gt; My first step though will be to call X, to make sure I am
&gt; acting on her excellent strategy advice.
&gt;
&gt; I'd like the Policy Committee's input on something though.  How far do we
&gt; pursue the two-pronged approach?  What I'm hearing from the progressive
&gt; alders is that they don't want something too "divisive" (presumably to
their
&gt; own caucus?), which means they want to back the weakest thing we've
&gt; presented them with.  If we are going to introduce one final text "as a
&gt; communication" I definitely need the Policy Committee's OK on what that
&gt; final text should be.
&gt;
&gt; OK, I'll get back to you when I know more.
&gt;
&gt; Sorry about all the e-mail.
&gt;
&gt; --X
&gt;
&gt; _________________________________________________________________
&gt; Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; policy@madpeace.org
&gt; http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

____________________________________________
X
East Timor Action Network field organizer   ETAN field office
X 						Social Justice Center
office XXX-XXX-XXXX		1202 Williamson St
cell XXX-XXX-XXXX                     Madison, WI 53703
home XXX-XXX-XXXX                          fax 608-227-0141

Check out these internet sites!
the East Timor Action Network/US      http://www.etan.org
Madison, WI - East Timor projects     http://www.aideasttimor.org
Madison's Social Justice Center       http://www.socialjusticecenter.org

"We struggled for more than 24 years for independence. We've learned the
lesson that even small people have a voice."
    -East Timorese leader Mari Alkatiri, during the August 30, 2001
Constituent Assembly vote


_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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            <description>Whether the contributor holds copyright to this item.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11056">
                <text>yes</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="56">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>The source of this item.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11057">
                <text>born-digital</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="57">
            <name>Media Type</name>
            <description>The media type of this item.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11058">
                <text>email</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="59">
            <name>Created by Author</name>
            <description>Whether the author created this item.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11059">
                <text>yes</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="60">
            <name>Described by Author</name>
            <description>Whether the description of this item was submitted by the author.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11060">
                <text>no</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="61">
            <name>Date Entered</name>
            <description>The date this item was entered into the archive.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="11061">
                <text>2001-11-07</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
      </elementSet>
    </elementSetContainer>
  </item>
</itemContainer>
